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Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


Coxswain Balls posted:

It didn't come with hard drive caddies, and they're like $40 each from Lenovo. Their RMA system doesn't work for international orders, yet they keep telling me to create a ticket on their RMA system before we can proceed further. Phoned in, same thing, and when I pointed out the ridiculousness of the situation to the dude, all he could say was "I'm afraid I don't have an answer for that."

The hardware itself is fantastic; the thing is dead quiet, which is the main thing I was worried about. All the negative feedback is stuff like "it came with no RAM sticks" or "the fans are broken". All of which wouldn't be that big a deal if the reseller wasn't a huge twat.

None of them come with caddies. My TS440 Has none, the TS140 had two. Welcome to the world of server vendors who ship caddies attached to drives.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


Skandranon posted:

Well, disaster recovery for RAID5/6 is already stressful enough, with needing the same RAID card/enclosure, setting drives in the right order, etc,

The bolded part isn't always true. I moved my file server into a new case a couple of months ago, and accidentally got a couple of SATA cables swapped around; the Areca card still detected and worked with the array perfectly well.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

Some older cards and software RAID setups aren't very flexible with the device paths and have trouble recovering from out of order physical devices. Modern RAID of any sort shouldn't care anymore though.

I think I managed to somehow fry the M1115 card that I got because I flashed it, got it to show in ESXi for a few reboots, and now the heatsink isn't warm, there's no LED turning on, and it doesn't seem to do anything in my other machine. Otherwise, I'm hoping it's because the tape I put on a pin is a little off because this would be another piece of hardware killed by ESD and I'm getting really tired of throwing away hardware at random.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Farmer Crack-Ass posted:

The bolded part isn't always true. I moved my file server into a new case a couple of months ago, and accidentally got a couple of SATA cables swapped around; the Areca card still detected and worked with the array perfectly well.

Isn't always true, but when it is true it just adds to frustration and anxiety, which is not what you want when doing disaster recovery. Especially if you are dealing with someone elses server and they didn't write this all down from the start.

lowcrabdiet
Jun 28, 2004
I'm not Steve Nash.

College Slice

There's an Amazon deal for Uninterruptible Power Supplies: (CyberPower UPS 600W and 900W models): http://amzn.to/1CHAI9q

edit: Actually there's a couple APC units too: here's the daily deal page for CyberPower and APC systems http://amzn.to/1CHB6oo

lowcrabdiet fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Apr 13, 2015

Coxswain Balls
Jun 4, 2001



College Slice

Mr Shiny Pants posted:

None of them come with caddies. My TS440 Has none, the TS140 had two. Welcome to the world of server vendors who ship caddies attached to drives.

I would have been fine with that if the vendor didn't advertise it as coming with them. If they don't come with the caddies, don't use multiple pictures of the server with the caddies installed for your product listing.

8-bit Miniboss
May 24, 2005

CORPO COPS CAME FOR MY


Coxswain Balls posted:

I would have been fine with that if the vendor didn't advertise it as coming with them. If they don't come with the caddies, don't use multiple pictures of the server with the caddies installed for your product listing.

You mean the dummies? That's how they always look for stock photos.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 4, 2001



College Slice

Not sure what you mean, but [url=http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Lenovo-ThinkServer-TS140-70A4-Core-i3-4330-3-5-GHz-4-GB-0-GB-70A4000FUX-/301528584683?ssPageName=ADME:X:RRIRTB3160]their listing[/url] shows it with the slim optical drive and drive caddies, and nothing about it "not being exactly as shown". Other reviews I've looked at had said they got them included, so I don't agree with the expectation that I should have just assumed it wouldn't have come with something it was advertised with. It's not like photos of what I actually got don't exist.

Ebay seems to agree with me, since they just refunded me after no response from the seller in three weeks. Woo, free server.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

^^ nice, that's like the cop not showing up to court when you contest a speeding ticket

lowcrabdiet posted:

There's an Amazon deal for Uninterruptible Power Supplies: (CyberPower UPS 600W and 900W models): http://amzn.to/1CHAI9q

edit: Actually there's a couple APC units too: here's the daily deal page for CyberPower and APC systems http://amzn.to/1CHB6oo

Thanks for posting this, picked up a CyberPower 1500. I have a couple of these at work at they have been flawless.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

lowcrabdiet posted:

There's an Amazon deal for Uninterruptible Power Supplies: (CyberPower UPS 600W and 900W models): http://amzn.to/1CHAI9q

edit: Actually there's a couple APC units too: here's the daily deal page for CyberPower and APC systems http://amzn.to/1CHB6oo
FYI, we had this topic in the Intel thread. An UPS with modified square waves may trip up PSUs with active PFC and trigger their over-current protection. The low load in NASes should probably not, but if you get a cheaper UPS and the thing doesn't work as expected, it's probably that.

savesthedayrocks
Mar 18, 2004


I checked out the other thread, is there any recommendations either way on brands to avoid or go with?

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

savesthedayrocks posted:

I checked out the other thread, is there any recommendations either way on brands to avoid or go with?

The Cyberpower Pure Sinewave ones get some pretty good reviews, but I don't think those are the ones on sale.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 4, 2001



College Slice

taqueso posted:

^^ nice, that's like the cop not showing up to court when you contest a speeding ticket

The thing is, eBay just asked for them to cut an RMA ticket for me, since the main problem was they kept sending me form emails to create a ticket on their RMA system, which didn't seem to work for the eBay order number that was provided. Every time I called in the same customer support agent came to the same conclusion and "escalated a ticket", which would just result in the same form email being sent to me asking to create a ticket using their RMA page. I would have been happy with a partial refund or, worst case, having to ship the thing back and getting a TS140 from another vendor, but I'm not complaining about how things turned out.

The UPS I got was one of the pure sinewave Cyberpowers that Skandranon is talking about, and it seems to be working well enough. It was causing surges where I had initially plugged it in, but as it turns out the outlet I put the server on was on the same circuit as my TV and networking equipment in one room, and my desktop computer in another room. Right now I have it plugged in to the same wall outlet that my air conditioner is on, which I'm a bit worried about when the time comes to start using it, but I don't really have any other places I can put it right now.

deimos
Nov 30, 2006

Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!


Combat Pretzel posted:

FYI, we had this topic in the Intel thread. An UPS with modified square waves may trip up PSUs with active PFC and trigger their over-current protection. The low load in NASes should probably not, but if you get a cheaper UPS and the thing doesn't work as expected, it's probably that.

To add to this: It's not really a huge problem in 110V countries with good power supplies.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Most of this talk about UPS only really matter when the power goes out and it has to switch to providing power. If your power never actually goes out, it's just a very expensive surge protector. It also can condition the power coming in, within limits, so if you aren't getting a proper 110V, it will fix that. Though, if that's a chronic issue, might want to get that addressed, instead of relying on UPSs to fix that forever.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell



My dkms is all messed up and I'm planning on running the following:

code:
sudo apt-get remove spl-dkms zfs-dkms ubuntu-zfs
sudo apt-get install spl-dkms
sudo apt-get install zfs-dkms
sudo apt-get install ubuntu-zfs
I think my pool configuration and everything will continue to work fine after this, but I just wanted to confirm that's the case?

It's been a couple years since I set up zfs and it's been out of sight, out of mind working with no intervention on my part and I can't remember all the ins and outs of setting it up.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


Thermopyle posted:

My dkms is all messed up and I'm planning on running the following:

code:
sudo apt-get remove spl-dkms zfs-dkms ubuntu-zfs
sudo apt-get install spl-dkms
sudo apt-get install zfs-dkms
sudo apt-get install ubuntu-zfs
I think my pool configuration and everything will continue to work fine after this, but I just wanted to confirm that's the case?

It's been a couple years since I set up zfs and it's been out of sight, out of mind working with no intervention on my part and I can't remember all the ins and outs of setting it up.

Being computers, the following applies with the usual caveats: It should work fine. A zpool import should do the trick. Maybe do an export first so it is "removed" from the system just to be sure.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

deimos posted:

To add to this: It's not really a huge problem in 110V countries with good power supplies.
How so? 110V appliances have higher input currents than 230V ones.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


A whole home surge protector will also help absorb shock from compressors and shit turning on.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell



Don Lapre posted:

A whole home surge protector will also help absorb shock from compressors and shit turning on.

And are super easy to install.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

http://www.cepro.com/article/the_my...rge_protection/ seems to indicate they are largely useless against the kind of surges (from within the house) that are being described.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Skandranon posted:

http://www.cepro.com/article/the_my...rge_protection/ seems to indicate they are largely useless against the kind of surges (from within the house) that are being described.

This is like, the worst written article ive seen in 14 days.

edit: looks like its written by a guy who sells power line conditioners and he has similiar articles posted all over the internets.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Don Lapre posted:

This is like, the worst written article ive seen in 14 days.

edit: looks like its written by a guy who sells power line conditioners and he has similiar articles posted all over the internets.

That'll show me to trust the internet. Thanks Obama.

8-bit Miniboss
May 24, 2005

CORPO COPS CAME FOR MY


Anyone have experience with PowerEdge T110 II Tower Server? They popped up on Slickdeals for $279 with free shipping for a base unit.

Specs
Intel Xeon E3-1220v2 Quad Core CPU
4GB DDR3
500GB 7200RPM Hard Drive
DVD Drive
No Operating System

No RAID but 4 SATA ports for HD's which should be fine for my intended setup.

Edit: Blah, nevermind. Can't use Dell Preferred Accounts for Dell Small Business purchases.

8-bit Miniboss fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Apr 14, 2015

deimos
Nov 30, 2006

Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!


Combat Pretzel posted:

How so? 110V appliances have higher input currents than 230V ones.

The problem with PFC and Square waves has to do with the cross voltage at the boost converter capacitor banks, usually these are specced for 400V to accomodate 230VAC, but square wave 230VAC UPSes will have cross voltages in excess of 400V.

A 120VAC UPS will not have this issue because they have closer to 300V cross voltages (usually 168V and -168V are the voltages they use, unless they have more steps).

There's a ton of discussion on the subject here: http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3964 and the general consensus is 120VAC is fine.


e: I guess I should've said you're not tripping overcurrent but overvoltage protection.

deimos fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Apr 15, 2015

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

deimos posted:

The problem with PFC and Square waves has to do with the cross voltage at the boost converter capacitor banks, usually these are specced for 400V to accomodate 230VAC, but square wave 230VAC UPSes will have cross voltages in excess of 400V.

A 120VAC UPS will not have this issue because they have closer to 300V cross voltages (usually 168V and -168V are the voltages they use, unless they have more steps).

There's a ton of discussion on the subject here: http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3964 and the general consensus is 120VAC is fine.


e: I guess I should've said you're not tripping overcurrent but overvoltage protection.

Sounds like witchcraft to me...

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams


I'm kinda surprised slash wish there was a UPS thread.

I have an old house with crappy wiring and the lights dim when the dishwasher changes cycles I want something to protect my server.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



That's not hurting your server.

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

around and around we go


I can't believe I am asking this but I just want to make sure that for HOME equipment, this'll work.

If I buy some (name brand) RAID enclosure to attach to my PC (e: oh uh, almost certainly NAS, but I suppose this question could apply to just a USB attached enclosure), and I put let's just say 3x4TB and 1x2TB in, when I replace the 2TB, the size of the array will grow, right?

Have actually never spent any time with consumer NASs. have this fear of buying a piece of equipment and being locked into however much storage I configure initially

e2: Here's me embarrassing myself, here's how little I've thought about consumer NASs. I wouldn't even buy one would I, I'd just take an old computer and slap a million drives in it, right? Oy, can a guy do any reading before he posts around here?

MC Fruit Stripe fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Apr 16, 2015

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Unless you do something really weird array-wise, having the 2tb drive mixed into a RAID5 or raidz1 array is actually going to cause you to have less usable space than the three 4tb drives would have otherwise.

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007

THIS IS HOW YOU REMIND ME OF WHAT I REALLY AM
*stumbles on reload and dies to a Nightstalker Super during Quick Play*


MC Fruit Stripe posted:

I can't believe I am asking this but I just want to make sure that for HOME equipment, this'll work.

If I buy some (name brand) RAID enclosure to attach to my PC (e: oh uh, almost certainly NAS, but I suppose this question could apply to just a USB attached enclosure), and I put let's just say 3x4TB and 1x2TB in, when I replace the 2TB, the size of the array will grow, right?

Have actually never spent any time with consumer NASs. have this fear of buying a piece of equipment and being locked into however much storage I configure initially

e2: Here's me embarrassing myself, here's how little I've thought about consumer NASs. I wouldn't even buy one would I, I'd just take an old computer and slap a million drives in it, right? Oy, can a guy do any reading before he posts around here?

Disclaimer: I'm not 110% sure this is the case, but I'm pretty sure it is.


With RAID 5, I believe you're locked into whatever size you initially start with forever.
With RAIDZ, your array can expand, but will always only be as large as the smallest drive in the array.

In your situation, if you were to configure those drives in RAIDZ, you would start with 6TB of usable space (smallest drive is 2TB x 4 total drives, minus 1 drive used for parity). If you then swapped out the 2TB drive for a 4 TB drive, your array should increase to 12TB usable space.

If you were to configure those drives in RAIDZ2, you would start with 4TB of usable space (smallest drive is 2TB x 4 total drives, minus 2 drives used for parity). If you then swapped out the 2TB drive for a 4 TB drive, your array should increase to 8TB usable space.

GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Apr 16, 2015

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

around and around we go


That's exactly what I expected, thank you

That said, I'm kinda talking myself out of it. I don't know, my thing is, I have all the storage I need. I just want to stop losing data to hard drive failures. Have an external drive, it fails. Have another, it fails. So I want an enclosure. Except they're (comparatively) expensive and again, I have as much storage space as I want. I'm not sure my problem isn't solved with a simple external drive or two dedicated to backups. I mean, that's solving my problem with external drives by adding more external drives, but still, it'd be a lot easier to justify buying an enclosure and populating it, if I needed storage AND backups. I only need backups.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

That's exactly what I expected, thank you

That said, I'm kinda talking myself out of it. I don't know, my thing is, I have all the storage I need. I just want to stop losing data to hard drive failures. Have an external drive, it fails. Have another, it fails. So I want an enclosure. Except they're (comparatively) expensive and again, I have as much storage space as I want. I'm not sure my problem isn't solved with a simple external drive or two dedicated to backups. I mean, that's solving my problem with external drives by adding more external drives, but still, it'd be a lot easier to justify buying an enclosure and populating it, if I needed storage AND backups. I only need backups.

Perhaps you could just do a simple 2x4tb mirror (RAID1) inside your desktop? Windows 7&8 can do that easily, with no additional hardware. That gives you 1 drive redundancy, and that protects against any data loss between backups. Also, enclosure hard drives tend to be the lower quality ones, so you're setting yourself up for more drive failures. It is also very simple to recovery from, unlike RAID5/6.

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

around and around we go


Skandranon posted:

Perhaps you could just do a simple 2x4tb mirror (RAID1) inside your desktop? Windows 7&8 can do that easily, with no additional hardware. That gives you 1 drive redundancy, and that protects against any data loss between backups. Also, enclosure hard drives tend to be the lower quality ones, so you're setting yourself up for more drive failures. It is also very simple to recovery from, unlike RAID5/6.
I'm the worst person because I know exactly what you mean, but I also didn't do it, and I know that's very goon in a well. Thing is, I thought about my particular situation - I've got all the space I need. I'm not running out of room for years and years. So in my particular case, if I take all this empty space and move some files around - instead of 2 drives that are 35% full, make it 1 that is 70% and free one up. I worked it out and basically with nothing more than a $150 5tb external from Seagate, and some file movement, I can back up everything I'd ever possibly want backed up.

I feel like my situation would have been much different if I wanted to add storage - if I was looking to add 8tb but also ensure that it was redundant, enclosure all the way. But in my spot, where if anything I have too much room, and just need to start backing things up, I'm just going to go with a simple external drive and call it a day.

Anyway I just wanted to follow up and say thanks, all the advice was great of course (and it's hilarious given what I do for a living that I know nothing about the consumer NAS space), but I'm the goon in a well and a simple robocopy to an external drive probably takes care of me.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

I'm the worst person because I know exactly what you mean, but I also didn't do it, and I know that's very goon in a well. Thing is, I thought about my particular situation - I've got all the space I need. I'm not running out of room for years and years. So in my particular case, if I take all this empty space and move some files around - instead of 2 drives that are 35% full, make it 1 that is 70% and free one up. I worked it out and basically with nothing more than a $150 5tb external from Seagate, and some file movement, I can back up everything I'd ever possibly want backed up.

I feel like my situation would have been much different if I wanted to add storage - if I was looking to add 8tb but also ensure that it was redundant, enclosure all the way. But in my spot, where if anything I have too much room, and just need to start backing things up, I'm just going to go with a simple external drive and call it a day.

Anyway I just wanted to follow up and say thanks, all the advice was great of course (and it's hilarious given what I do for a living that I know nothing about the consumer NAS space), but I'm the goon in a well and a simple robocopy to an external drive probably takes care of me.

Good luck and godspeed. May your drives live forever.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

Looks like the older Seagate 3TB drives are garbage

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/3tb-hard-drive-failure/

Beginning in January 2012, Backblaze deployed 4,829 Seagate 3TB hard drives, model ST3000DM001, into Backblaze Storage Pods. In our experience, 80% of the hard drives we deploy will function at least 4 years. As of March 31, 2015, just 10% of the Seagate 3TB drives deployed in 2012 are still in service. This is the story of the 4,345 Seagate 3TB drives that are no longer in service.

deimos
Nov 30, 2006

Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!


Bob Morales posted:

Looks like the older Seagate 3TB drives are garbage

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/3tb-hard-drive-failure/

Beginning in January 2012, Backblaze deployed 4,829 Seagate 3TB hard drives, model ST3000DM001, into Backblaze Storage Pods. In our experience, 80% of the hard drives we deploy will function at least 4 years. As of March 31, 2015, just 10% of the Seagate 3TB drives deployed in 2012 are still in service. This is the story of the 4,345 Seagate 3TB drives that are no longer in service.

Not really about "older" Seagate drives but specifically Seagate drives manufactured during the post-flood crisis.

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009



Hair Elf

Bob Morales posted:

Looks like the older Seagate 3TB drives are garbage

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/3tb-hard-drive-failure/

Beginning in January 2012, Backblaze deployed 4,829 Seagate 3TB hard drives, model ST3000DM001, into Backblaze Storage Pods. In our experience, 80% of the hard drives we deploy will function at least 4 years. As of March 31, 2015, just 10% of the Seagate 3TB drives deployed in 2012 are still in service. This is the story of the 4,345 Seagate 3TB drives that are no longer in service.

God yes. I have 8 of those fuckers so help me. I've RMAd 4 of them, one a day before it's warranty expired. I haven't lost any data yet because they've been nice enough not to all fail at once, but it certainly agrees with that massive failure statistic.

I really need to just bite the bullet and replace them all, but $$$

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

Holy shit, that's far worse of a drive failure rate statistic than the old IBM Deathstars.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


necrobobsledder posted:

Holy shit, that's far worse of a drive failure rate statistic than the old IBM Deathstars.

Damn you guys, I have three of these drives and while they are running great you now have me thinking about preemptively replacing them.

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