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G-Prime
Apr 30, 2003

Baby, when it's love,
if it's not rough it isn't fun.


Condolences on your loss. The answer is that they're just regular hard drives which are very slightly slower than normal and rated to run 24/7. You can use them in any way you would use any other hard drive.

HenryEx
Mar 25, 2009

...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...


Grimey Drawer

Thank you.

I might upgrade my PC HDD with one of those then, it's a pretty old WD caviar blue, and looking at the specs, one of those red ones might still be twice as fast while using half the power. I'll have to figure out how to migrate all my stuff over in the least painful way possible,.

Also, can these be used in a RAID array? I know my father set one of those up for my mom's work PCs, and while i have them, i might as well replace those too if it's possible. That RAID must be a decade old by now, too.

G-Prime
Apr 30, 2003

Baby, when it's love,
if it's not rough it isn't fun.


Also yes. A significant percentage of people in this thread are using WD Red drives for their RAID arrays (myself included).

Nulldevice
Jun 17, 2006


Toilet Rascal

Discussion Quorum posted:

I am going to piggyback off the poster above asking about DIY.

I need something reasonably compact, low-power, and quiet (our home office is becoming a nursery, so it will live next to the TV until we move somewhere with a dedicated office). Main uses will be file sharing and backup of personal files, consolidated scheduled remote backup to Backblaze B2, and running a bunch of Docker containers (4-6, mostly lightweight stuff like OpenHab, Mosquitto, and PiHole). AES-NI would be nice for filesystem encryption and maybe offloading OpenVPN from my router. Possibly some low-usage (max 2 streams) Plex/Emby. Currently some of this is running on a stack of RPis which I would like to cut down or replace.

Would something like the QNAP TS-453Be be the right solution for me, or would I do better to build something with a mITX embedded board with the same J3455? How is the experience running plain-Jane Linux after QNAP support ends?

Anything to be careful of/avoid if shopping for a used QNAP or MicroServer?

I think the only thing that would hold you back on the Q-Nap is the 8GB memory limitation. I haven't owned a Q-Nap in a long time so I don't know about B2 integration but I'm guessing you looked into this. I would venture to say the Q-Nap may suit your needs but read further for my opinions.

I would weigh the costs between the Q-Nap hardware (diskless) vs going DIY and seeing which you would get more horsepower out of.

For DIY you could go with a 8th gen Celeron (2c/2) or Pentium (2c/4t) and 16GB DDR4 RAM to handle the dockers. Get a board with sufficient SATA ports or grab an HBA from ebay for less than $50 and install the OS of your choice on a drive connected to the motherboard. For the living room I'd find a case that has a low noise profile.

Anyway I hope my rambling helps a little.

Discussion Quorum
Dec 5, 2002
Armchair Philistine


Yeah it does, thanks. I think my Docker use will be light enough for the QNAP, but DIY looks like it could be significantly cheaper and more future-proof (at the cost of more computer touching - as it tends to be). I didn't actually check on whether or not QNAP can back up to B2, but it looks like it can do it the normal way with restic.

I was thinking of something like this as an "equivalent" DIY system (although not sure about the PSU), and for not terribly much more I could upgrade the motherboard to something like this industrial board (I have an old Sandy Bridge laptop I could scavenge for an i7 and RAM), or something like this MSI server/workstation board. Seem reasonable?

Storage-wise a RAID-1 of 8TB disks will probably cover me for a long while, but I'm going to plan on growing that into a 3-4 disk JBOD solution eventually.

Is ECC really that important? The FreeNAS folks make it sound as essential as water and oxygen but it's really hard to find something in mini-ITX format with ECC support that isn't silly expensive (and low-power Xeons get pricey quick too). There are some Gigabyte Xeon-D motherboards on eBay for ~$300 (which is really stretching my current budget, gotta buy disks too ) but some Googling revealed a lot of reports of water damage and signs that they were salvaged from some sort of disaster recovery scenario.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


I fall in the ECC doesn't matter for home use camp.

But I also realize some people do more than Linux iso storage on their home setups.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





If you're doing this on a budget of "reusing hardware", I wouldn't sweat ECC. If you're buying new hardware anyway the difference really isn't that great between ECC and non-ECC platforms.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



Speaking of reusing hardware, I got my NAS up. I bought two of those WD My Book 8TB drives from Amazon and got them shucked without much trouble. Then I found the drives had the 3.3V pin problem, but there's an electronics parts store a block from my house so I walked over and got some kapton tape. $20 on Newegg for another 4GB of RAM brought me up to 8GB, and $20 for a new Cooler Master heatsink + $10 for a box of 4x 120mm case fans improved the airflow.

Speeds are great over my wired network, but really point up the failures of my wireless network. I've got my desktop on wireless since running a cable would be such a bitch, but I'm currently pushing from the desktop to the NAS at 2MB/s where my laptop, plugged into a wired network in the shed, sees at least 10x that rate.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


Pham Nuwen posted:

Speeds are great over my wired network, but really point up the failures of my wireless network. I've got my desktop on wireless since running a cable would be such a bitch, but I'm currently pushing from the desktop to the NAS at 2MB/s where my laptop, plugged into a wired network in the shed, sees at least 10x that rate.

Is it a mac? I sit doing timemachine to your NAS? My router becomes painfully slow when timemachine is running on my wifes computer over wifi.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



H110Hawk posted:

Is it a mac? I sit doing timemachine to your NAS? My router becomes painfully slow when timemachine is running on my wifes computer over wifi.

Nope, Windows 10.

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012



Fallen Rib

H110Hawk posted:

Is it a mac? I sit doing timemachine to your NAS? My router becomes painfully slow when timemachine is running on my wifes computer over wifi.
That’s weird, I haven’t run into that problem. I did however need to check “release resources immediately after disconnecting” under AFP preferences in Synology DSM to get it working right. What the fuck Apple, just give up and use SMB already

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:

That’s weird, I haven’t run into that problem. I did however need to check “release resources immediately after disconnecting” under AFP preferences in Synology DSM to get it working right. What the fuck Apple, just give up and use SMB already

It's my router, not my synology. I need to replace it but

Discussion Quorum
Dec 5, 2002
Armchair Philistine


IOwnCalculus posted:

If you're doing this on a budget of "reusing hardware", I wouldn't sweat ECC. If you're buying new hardware anyway the difference really isn't that great between ECC and non-ECC platforms.

Fair enough, I have some flex (it's not a pure penny-pinching build) but with a kid on the way I'm trying to keep my usual tendency towards budget creep in check. A $500 Supermicro ITX board is pretty much out of the question though.

The only stuff that truly needs ironclad protection from corruption (family photos and some scanned records) could probably be handled more cost-effectively by just having multiple independent copies.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





ECC doesn't eliminate your need for backup, just ever-so-very-slightly reduces the likelihood that you'll need to restore from them.

I will say that at least for Intel gear, if you want ECC, you're way better off buying used.

Discussion Quorum
Dec 5, 2002
Armchair Philistine


Sure, I'll be backing everything up to Backblaze. I'm thinking more of a corrupted file getting pushed up to the remote backup and the good version "aging out," and so the really important stuff might also go on a couple flash drives in our safe deposit box. Maybe I'm overcomplicating this?

Edit: I thought about this for three additional seconds and obviously there are more ways that could happen besides RAM-related corruption

eames
May 9, 2009



I just received an email announcing that dockerhub was compromised.
Many NAS OSes use dockerhub to pull containers for custom services, so if you use Docker and Dockerhub now might be a good idea to make an additional backup.

Heners_UK
Jun 1, 2002


But my backups are done by a docker container!

(Password changed as per email I recieved yesterday, although the most realistic attack I can see from this on users is someone adding something to a docker container as an "update")

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012



Fallen Rib

H110Hawk posted:

It's my router, not my synology. I need to replace it but
In fairness, I wrote that post while pooping.

Discussion Quorum
Dec 5, 2002
Armchair Philistine


I ran the "get.docker.com | bash" nonsense not 24 hours ago on my Raspberry Pi. I remember thinking that anything official from Docker should be at least as safe as Raspbian's package repository, and "besides, if it gets owned it'll make the news."

On the plus side, nobody with the resources to leverage stolen Docker build keys is likely to be wasting time with Raspbian or ARM in general

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




Moving my total situation from a discombobulated Bulldozer with local drives and a dual xeon e5-2603v3 with a Dell MD1000 to a single 2603-V3 with some added NVMe. Should cut down on power and make things a little more manageable. Hopefully the arrays come along from Corral as I plan on upgrading in place. Cross your fingers.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





The most picky it should get is if it complains about not exporting the zpool first.

meinstein
Dec 9, 2003


I'm new to this and I'm looking to build something to run Open Media Vault - I think? It looks like that's the way I should be going.

Can someone help me with the build I have below? Something tells me I should just scrap all of it and buy an appliance (a friend recommend Drobo), but here are my possibly stupid reasons for wanting something I have full control over and OpenMediaVault in particular:

1. I'm fairly comfortable with linux. I maintain a few .deb packages and debian-based distros are my go-to for machines where I care about stability.
2. I'll end up running a plex server off it if I have the computing power, so I don't need to turn on my Good Gaming Rig to watch my home movies
3. I have some home-automation ideas, I work as a software engineer at an IoT shop and I've been putting too many things on too many raspis. It would be nice to just start churning out docker images and having them live happily together
4. I need to be able to back up from macOS, Linux, and Windows

I'm pretty sure in particular that CPU is overkill in both processing power and power consumption but I'm not sure where I should be going instead, especially when it's so cheap to buy. I've been looking at board with integrated Atom processors, but I'm quite attached to that case and finding a good mini-ITX combo is difficult.

It's my understanding I don't need to worry about any sort of hardware raid with OMV -- right?

Thank you for any and all suggestions!

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel - Celeron G4900 3.1 GHz Dual-Core Processor ($56.50 @ Walmart)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Pure Rock Slim 35.14 CFM CPU Cooler ($29.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - H370M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($108.88 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill - Aegis 8 GB (1 x 8 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: SanDisk - SSD PLUS 120 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($27.95 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($123.72 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($123.72 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($123.72 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case ($87.40 @ Newegg)
Total: $716.76
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-04-28 20:47 EDT-0400

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




IOwnCalculus posted:

The most picky it should get is if it complains about not exporting the zpool first.

Thanks IOC! Came home from dinner a little more lit than I was planning on so postponing for now but I feel better about it overall.

G-Prime
Apr 30, 2003

Baby, when it's love,
if it's not rough it isn't fun.


For what it's worth, I did a fresh install of 11 after the Corral fiasco and brought in my pool with zero problems. Went really well, in fact. The only thing that was a little rough was converting back from a VM running Docker containers to running jails again.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

Someone on Macrumors is selling a Lacie Big 5 (empty, 5 bay Thunderbolt 2 storage unit)

Any idea what they are worth? There's a beat up empty one on eBay for $225 or best with free shipping but that even sounds high.

Nulldevice
Jun 17, 2006


Toilet Rascal

meinstein posted:

I'm new to this and I'm looking to build something to run Open Media Vault - I think? It looks like that's the way I should be going.

Can someone help me with the build I have below? Something tells me I should just scrap all of it and buy an appliance (a friend recommend Drobo), but here are my possibly stupid reasons for wanting something I have full control over and OpenMediaVault in particular:

1. I'm fairly comfortable with linux. I maintain a few .deb packages and debian-based distros are my go-to for machines where I care about stability.
2. I'll end up running a plex server off it if I have the computing power, so I don't need to turn on my Good Gaming Rig to watch my home movies
3. I have some home-automation ideas, I work as a software engineer at an IoT shop and I've been putting too many things on too many raspis. It would be nice to just start churning out docker images and having them live happily together
4. I need to be able to back up from macOS, Linux, and Windows

I'm pretty sure in particular that CPU is overkill in both processing power and power consumption but I'm not sure where I should be going instead, especially when it's so cheap to buy. I've been looking at board with integrated Atom processors, but I'm quite attached to that case and finding a good mini-ITX combo is difficult.

It's my understanding I don't need to worry about any sort of hardware raid with OMV -- right?

Thank you for any and all suggestions!

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel - Celeron G4900 3.1 GHz Dual-Core Processor ($56.50 @ Walmart)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Pure Rock Slim 35.14 CFM CPU Cooler ($29.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - H370M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($108.88 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill - Aegis 8 GB (1 x 8 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: SanDisk - SSD PLUS 120 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($27.95 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($123.72 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($123.72 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($123.72 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case ($87.40 @ Newegg)
Total: $716.76
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-04-28 20:47 EDT-0400

This looks like a good starter build for an OMV box. You won't need any hardware raid for it as you will be using mdadm for software raid. if you're going to run plex you might need a beefier cpu tho.

Heners_UK
Jun 1, 2002


meinstein posted:

I'm new to this and I'm looking to build something to run Open Media Vault - I think? It looks like that's the way I should be going.

1. I'm fairly comfortable with linux. I maintain a few .deb packages and debian-based distros are my go-to for machines where I care about stability.
...
3. I have some home-automation ideas, I work as a software engineer at an IoT shop and I've been putting too many things on too many raspis. It would be nice to just start churning out docker images and having them live happily together

Based on your background and what you intend, you can go OMV. However, I wonder if you'd be better stepping up a bit in CPU and putting ESXi or something on there to act as a hypervisor, then run OMV within one VM. Not so much that you need to, but more that I think you'll find yourself opting to later.

Also, see the discussions about shucking (opening up) external harddrives to get cheap, large, internal drives. Might get you more space for your money.

Looks good though, no problems I can see.

nerox
May 20, 2001


meinstein posted:

I'm new to this and I'm looking to build something to run Open Media Vault - I think? It looks like that's the way I should be going.

Can someone help me with the build I have below? Something tells me I should just scrap all of it and buy an appliance (a friend recommend Drobo), but here are my possibly stupid reasons for wanting something I have full control over and OpenMediaVault in particular:

1. I'm fairly comfortable with linux. I maintain a few .deb packages and debian-based distros are my go-to for machines where I care about stability.
2. I'll end up running a plex server off it if I have the computing power, so I don't need to turn on my Good Gaming Rig to watch my home movies
3. I have some home-automation ideas, I work as a software engineer at an IoT shop and I've been putting too many things on too many raspis. It would be nice to just start churning out docker images and having them live happily together
4. I need to be able to back up from macOS, Linux, and Windows

I'm pretty sure in particular that CPU is overkill in both processing power and power consumption but I'm not sure where I should be going instead, especially when it's so cheap to buy. I've been looking at board with integrated Atom processors, but I'm quite attached to that case and finding a good mini-ITX combo is difficult.

It's my understanding I don't need to worry about any sort of hardware raid with OMV -- right?

Thank you for any and all suggestions!

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel - Celeron G4900 3.1 GHz Dual-Core Processor ($56.50 @ Walmart)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Pure Rock Slim 35.14 CFM CPU Cooler ($29.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - H370M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($108.88 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill - Aegis 8 GB (1 x 8 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: SanDisk - SSD PLUS 120 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($27.95 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($123.72 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($123.72 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($123.72 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case ($87.40 @ Newegg)
Total: $716.76
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-04-28 20:47 EDT-0400

You can step up the computing power with the same TDP by going Ryzen 3 2200G and an AMD mobo for not much more money if you just use the stock AMD cooler. I have never had an issue with noise from the Ryzen 5 2400G with a stock cooler in my NAS. This might help with plex.

I did the 4gb red thing initially as well, if I went back now, I would've just bought 2 8gb externals and shucked them at the start.

nerox fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Apr 29, 2019

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

If Godzilla can do it, you know I can deliver!

Pillbug

So, I'm ditching FreeNAS, going to try XigmaNAS, I'll let you know how it goes.

Odette
Mar 19, 2011



Is it possible to remove a bunch of drives using ZFS from a FreeNAS system and expect them to be detected as ZFS pools/etc in Proxmox?

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




Okay, fight does not go well in getting my pools migrated over to 11.x from Corral. Basically, I had a motherboard that was hosting a Dell MD1000 DAS enclosure that was its own pool with some NVMe cache. I've inserted that motherboard into the 2u chassis that was hosting 2 other pools with internal drives and some SATA cache. This is worrisome because it sees the pools that that particular hardware didn't create and has imported them successfully. It does not see the Pool in the MD1000 as available to import.

It is showing the disks in the Disks/Import disk dialogue but no active pool with it. Is it safe/necessary to import the drives the pool is on in this instance since it's not auto-grabbing the whole pool? Based on the outputs I saw during install I thought it had seen it when it did its initial queries for pools and I didn't have to do it for the two others.

Crunchy Black fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Apr 30, 2019

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




Anyone have any thoughts? Going to try importing the disks tonight if I don't have any feedback saying, "wait, don't!"

deong
Jun 13, 2001

I'll see you in heck!


I'm wanting to get a NAS system to replace my current dual external backups. Right now I just copy between my desktop 1tb to 2 separate 5tb drives. I run ubuntu as my main system, and I just do an rsync to move things over.

Thinking of getting a DS418play with 2 WD 8tb shucked drives in a SHR array. From there, I'd have 2 expansion bays for the future right? Just plug in the new drives and away it goes?

My home consists of a little of everything. I mostly use the storage for video and backing up pictures/documents. I'd probably keep doing the USB sync for important things. I have a rpi running kodi, ipad that accesses w/ vlc, android phone, macbook and windows laptop. I'd like everything to be able to reach it, I assume just a SMB share works fine for that. Is there anything I'm missing? It seems like I'd just be sacrificing cost. I used to do freenas on zfs but my pools fucked up and I went to the 2 usb externals.. This was probably 10 years ago tho.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

If Godzilla can do it, you know I can deliver!

Pillbug

Crunchy Black posted:

Anyone have any thoughts? Going to try importing the disks tonight if I don't have any feedback saying, "wait, don't!"

It should be safe to import them, which is what I did with mine.

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA


Odette posted:

Is it possible to remove a bunch of drives using ZFS from a FreeNAS system and expect them to be detected as ZFS pools/etc in Proxmox?

zpool export tank and zpool import tank should work fine assuming they're using similar or compliant versions of zfs. If they are, it'll work like a champ, if they aren't it'll complain that it doesn't understand the pool, or that the pool is using the wrong version and refuse to import.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell



A 5TB WD Red in one of my pools faulted this morning with over a thousand write errors.

I go to check the warranty status and...

It expired one month ago. :/

ufarn
May 30, 2009


What's the warranty period on those things?

Broken Machine
Oct 22, 2010



I wouldn't be surprised, if you called Western Digital that they'd still honor the warranty, especially if it's that close.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell



ufarn posted:

What's the warranty period on those things?

3 years


Broken Machine posted:

I wouldn't be surprised, if you called Western Digital that they'd still honor the warranty, especially if it's that close.

I'll try this when I've got the time and inclination to sit on hold for what I'm assuming will be one bajillion hours.

ufarn
May 30, 2009


Three years on WD Reds?! That sounds like an absurd warranty, especially for reds. Guess I'm reading the fine print next time I buy.

E: That's apparently what IronWolf has, too. But still worth contacting them given how close you were to the expiration date.

ufarn fucked around with this message at 15:29 on May 2, 2019

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