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Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell



If I wanted to remotely or automated-ly turn on (and off!) a system, I might buy an ESP8266 for 5 bucks and a relay or two and wire it right in to the power button.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

Eletriarnation posted:

Speaking of that, it's live right now.

Thanks for the heads-up. I picked up 2 for a new server.

jeeves
May 27, 2001

Deranged Psychopathic
Butler Extraordinaire


Atomizer posted:

Both of your use cases sounds more like they need a simple external drive (or multi-bay enclosure) as opposed to a NAS. I think it's assumed that one operates a NAS 24/7 so multiple clients can connect to it as needed. In jeeves' case, if you're manually powering on your "NAS" then you're basically just operating a file server, and one with, what, 8 or 10 TB of capacity currently? 10 TB external USB HDDs are typically ~$160 on sale, and you could have one or two of those connected to that NUC.

I use an SFF system (HP EliteDesk) as my multi-purpose server (including Plex) with an external drive for media storage, and although I leave it on 24/7, it's effectively doing exactly what you guys want to do; it even works perfectly with WoL.

I bought my NAS before USB3 was cheaply available, but yeah, I mostly use my NAS as a JBOD for a smaller / low power server. I do like the reliability of ZFS and multi-client reads for the few times I use it though.

I'm going to try to the whole SSD via eSATA thing for the boot drive. Can't be slower than the current USB2 boot disk.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

I definitely want a nas because I have other people accessing it just for a large chunk of the day (say 3am to 11am) no one usually accesses it. Afternoons and evenings mostly.

Probably not really worth the bother with the amount of power used overall..

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


eames posted:

Anandtech reviewed the Seagate hybrid SMR drives discussed here a few weeks ago

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1453...-portable-smr/4

Interesting! The article basically states what I've emphasized: SMR is fine for the average user and in HDD-appropriate scenarios, and isn't the boogeyman that some people make it out to be. I like those portable, high-capacity HDDs; 5 TB on a single USB connector for ~$100? Works for me! The only thing slightly annoying is the absence of a USB-C connector, which is getting inexcusable considering we're midway through 2019 already.

The silver 2 TB slim version is currently $55 on Amazon!

jeeves posted:

I bought my NAS before USB3 was cheaply available, but yeah, I mostly use my NAS as a JBOD for a smaller / low power server. I do like the reliability of ZFS and multi-client reads for the few times I use it though.

I'm going to try to the whole SSD via eSATA thing for the boot drive. Can't be slower than the current USB2 boot disk.

Let me know if you get eSATA working; I tried it with multiple drives, mutiple enclosures, on at least 2 PCs and couldn't get anything to be detected at all.

priznat posted:

I definitely want a nas because I have other people accessing it just for a large chunk of the day (say 3am to 11am) no one usually accesses it. Afternoons and evenings mostly.

Probably not really worth the bother with the amount of power used overall..

Oh the actual usage then totally justifies the use of a NAS, but manually (or even automatically, if it could do so via a scheduler,) power cycling it just to have it off for ~8 hours/day seems unnecessary. I wouldn't worry about it. You could plug it into a KillAWatt to measure its usage if you're curious (if it can't report power usage itself) but it's probably minimal while idle, and if necessary you could see if it can force idle drives to spin down if they don't already do that to further reduce power/heat. But yeah it sounds like it gets enough use to justify it being left as-is.

goodness
Jan 3, 2012

When the light turns green, you go. When the light turns red, you stop. But what do you do when the light turns blue with orange and lavender spots?


If I'm looking for a simple setup for a home server (Only ~4TB of data but ability to add more would be good) is the Synology DS218+ the buy? Main use would be video stream like plex and general storage.

goodness fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Jun 19, 2019

Kaboobi
Jan 5, 2005

SHAKE IT BABY!
SALT THAT LADY!



goodness posted:

If I'm looking for a simple setup for a home server (Only ~24TB of data but ability to add more would be good) is the Synology DS218+ the buy? Main use would be video stream like plex and general storage.

The 218+ only has two drives, you’d probably the 918+ for a 4 bay system or a 1019 for a 5 bay?

goodness
Jan 3, 2012

When the light turns green, you go. When the light turns red, you stop. But what do you do when the light turns blue with orange and lavender spots?


Kaboobi posted:

The 218+ only has two drives, you’d probably the 918+ for a 4 bay system or a 1019 for a 5 bay?

I had my comment wrong, that is 4TB not 24TB! Whoops

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003



D. Ebdrup posted:

Patching the daemon is a one-time diff or pull-request to an upstream project, unless the project actively refuses to be portable.
You still need something to maintain the list of IPs that need to be blocked as well as keep track of how long they've been blocked.
The other advantage of blacklistd is that it's firewall-agnostic because it's intended to be widely ported (as one might expect from someone using NetBSD) - meaning it works with ipfw, freebsds pf, openbsds pf, ipf, npf (NetBSDs new firewall that's pretty amazing), iptables, bpf-tables (Linux finally getting a packet filter based on Berkeley Packet Filter, it only took them almost 3 decades), and anything else you wanna use (even Windows' firewall).

The other problem with sshguard, fail2ban, and the like - aside from the minor issue with dual-stacking which most of them don't handle right or took almost two decades after IPv6 to fix - is that by grepping log files like this means they're surprisingly susceptible to denial of service.

But you're still creating a structure where e.g. your web server is calling out to an external service to validate requests for a purpose that doesn't have anything to do with serving web.

What happens if the blocker isn't responding? Should the server just sit on a rapidly growing buffer of recent requests until the blocker comes back, or just give up entirely?

Rather than having everything calling into a single service (let's call it bottleneckd) to directly report every request they've served, what if they just wrote their respective request buffers to some kind of log of requests? Then the blocker can be as unresponsive as it wants while not being anywhere near the critical path of the services it's monitoring.

Or if we're looking at a load balanced setup the aggregate request history for different services could just be fed from the logs into Kafka or whatever and the blocker would then feed off that. A direct push from dozens of hundreds of machines directly to bottleneckd would be hopeless in this situation.

Point being that an asynchronous log parsing structure ensures that the query monitor isn't anywhere near the query path. And if parsing logs is DoSing your system then fix your logs.

Photex
Apr 6, 2009





goodness posted:

If I'm looking for a simple setup for a home server (Only ~4TB of data but ability to add more would be good) is the Synology DS218+ the buy? Main use would be video stream like plex and general storage.

Always aim higher imo or else you'll just be posting synologys on samart in 6 month at half their value because you are capped out.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


Does anybody have case recommendations with at least 4 2.5" bays that can hold 15mm tall drives? Is this something that exists? Almost all of the cases I've found specify 9.5mm high 2.5" bays.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Photex posted:

Always aim higher imo or else you'll just be posting synologys on samart in 6 month at half their value because you are capped out.

Yeah, but with such a small dataset and the dirt cheap prices of 8-10tb drives, could just mirror a pair and call it a day.

Unless you need the beefier CPUs in the larger Synology units.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


Twerk from Home posted:

Does anybody have case recommendations with at least 4 2.5" bays that can hold 15mm tall drives? Is this something that exists? Almost all of the cases I've found specify 9.5mm high 2.5" bays.

If you're okay with a case large enough to have (potentially many) open 5.25" bays, Icy Dock makes a wide range of 2.5"-in-5.25" hot swap cages. Some (not all) support 15mm drives. This one looks particularly nice:

MB508SP-B

Eight 15mm 2.5" hotswap bays in two 5.25" case bays, and the backplane uses two SFF-8643 Mini-SAS connectors rather than discrete SATA connectors so you can cable it to a Mini-SAS RAID card with only two SFF-8643-to-SFF-8643 cables.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Twerk from Home posted:

Does anybody have case recommendations with at least 4 2.5" bays that can hold 15mm tall drives? Is this something that exists? Almost all of the cases I've found specify 9.5mm high 2.5" bays.

Are you looking for something in the synology type form factor or a regular ATX tower or a server rack or what?

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Supermicro may have drive bays that size to fit the big fat 2.5” nvme drives.

Another alternative is one with 3.5” bays and get carrier adapters.

Enos Cabell
Nov 3, 2004



I've got a bunch of free 5.25 bays in my tower, what's the best option for mounting and cooling 3.5 drives? I have 6 drives mounted in the 6 3.5 spots in the bottom of the case, but now temps are starting to be an issue.

E: not using raid and don't need them to be hot swap bays

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Enos Cabell posted:

I've got a bunch of free 5.25 bays in my tower, what's the best option for mounting and cooling 3.5 drives? I have 6 drives mounted in the 6 3.5 spots in the bottom of the case, but now temps are starting to be an issue.

E: not using raid and don't need them to be hot swap bays

If cooling is an issue, a drive bay adapter with integrated fan would be a good idea:
This one's cheap with no backplane:
https://smile.amazon.com/EverCool-D.../dp/B0032UUGF4/

More expensive but lets you fit more drives in:
https://smile.amazon.com/Drive-Alum.../dp/B00OUSU8MI/

I've got one of the latter style and it's pretty good. There's a ton of other options (this is kind of a broad search):
https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=drive+...ay+%2Caps%2C129

Enos Cabell
Nov 3, 2004



Rexxed posted:

If cooling is an issue, a drive bay adapter with integrated fan would be a good idea:
This one's cheap with no backplane:
https://smile.amazon.com/EverCool-D.../dp/B0032UUGF4/

Thanks, this one looks like it should do the trick.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



Progressive JPEG posted:

But you're still creating a structure where e.g. your web server is calling out to an external service to validate requests for a purpose that doesn't have anything to do with serving web.

What happens if the blocker isn't responding? Should the server just sit on a rapidly growing buffer of recent requests until the blocker comes back, or just give up entirely?

Rather than having everything calling into a single service (let's call it bottleneckd) to directly report every request they've served, what if they just wrote their respective request buffers to some kind of log of requests? Then the blocker can be as unresponsive as it wants while not being anywhere near the critical path of the services it's monitoring.

Or if we're looking at a load balanced setup the aggregate request history for different services could just be fed from the logs into Kafka or whatever and the blocker would then feed off that. A direct push from dozens of hundreds of machines directly to bottleneckd would be hopeless in this situation.

Point being that an asynchronous log parsing structure ensures that the query monitor isn't anywhere near the query path. And if parsing logs is DoSing your system then fix your logs.
Is a webserver typically something you want to filter based on what's essentially layer 8? Typically, blacklistd is run on sshd, postfix, and similar daemons.

The thing is, if you're using grep (via fail2ban or sshguard), you still have the exact same issue, except they're a lot slower at processing the requests than blacklistd is. But sure, you're more than welcome to write bottleneckd.

Speaking of fasts per second, I've seen blacklistd used on honeypots, and it can keep up during active attacks, so I'm not sure what bottlenecks you're talking about.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but if a daemon isn't working it's up to it to crash so that the supervisor (I use daemon(8) in FreeBSD) can restart it, and the sysadmin can fix it. It's not like fail2ban and sshguard can't fail either, but I'm not going to argue over which can have more errors because there can be as many errors as there are lines of code, and I can't be arsed to go back and forth that many times.

Looten Plunder
Jul 11, 2006


Grimey Drawer

Finally got my DS18play after waiting for a price drop for the last 3.5 months. Now I gotta get the hard drives.

I assume there is very little difference between Seagate Ironwolfs and WD Red drives? They are literally the same price where I'm buying them from (although Seagate is giving away a 2TB one of these for free at the moment)

Looten Plunder fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Jun 20, 2019

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Literally every Ironwolf I bought died in a matter of hours. I realize that clearly is an extreme example but I've never had that happen with any other drive.

I'm assuming you're somewhere that you can't get cheap shuckable drives?

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



IOwnCalculus posted:

Literally every Ironwolf I bought died in a matter of hours. I realize that clearly is an extreme example but I've never had that happen with any other drive.

I'm assuming you're somewhere that you can't get cheap shuckable drives?
It's not that uncommon if they're the same production run, as indicated by sequential or near-sequential serial numbers.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





D. Ebdrup posted:

It's not that uncommon if they're the same production run, as indicated by sequential or near-sequential serial numbers.

Two shipments with at least a month difference in production date if I remember correctly.

Now they all came from Amazon so it's entirely possible they were mishandled before they got to me, but who knows. Half were basically DOA, the other half would work for one to six hours or so before slowing to an utter crawl and then dying.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

I try and save money buying a lot of computer stuff. But you know what I don't do? Buy Seagates to save money on my NAS.

H2SO4
Sep 11, 2001

put your money in a log cabin




Buglord

go go gadget anecdotal data!

deong
Jun 13, 2001

I'll see you in heck!


Can someone give me a little insight on Synology models.
I'm looking at getting a 2 bay with the option of expanding in the future.
https://www.synology.com/en-us/prod...8/DS218+/DS718+
From this, it looks like the DS218+ doesn't have the ability to use the DX517. But when I look at the specs of the DX517, the DS218+ shows.
Its ~$100 difference between the 2 diskless, so just trying to weigh the price change.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


deong posted:

Can someone give me a little insight on Synology models.
I'm looking at getting a 2 bay with the option of expanding in the future.
https://www.synology.com/en-us/prod...8/DS218+/DS718+
From this, it looks like the DS218+ doesn't have the ability to use the DX517. But when I look at the specs of the DX517, the DS218+ shows.
Its ~$100 difference between the 2 diskless, so just trying to weigh the price change.

It has the needed esata port, I assume it will "just work" as there is nothing on the DS218+ product page that says it cannot and the DX517 explicitly says it will work. Is there a reason you aren't going with a 5ish bay unit all up front? Not enough cash on hand?

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

Yeah expansion units are literally just dumb data boards for extra slots. So you give yourself a severe bottle neck. My recommendation would be just get a 918+ better processor better ram built in. And just add drives to the array to it as you need it.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012



H110Hawk posted:

It has the needed esata port, I assume it will "just work" as there is nothing on the DS218+ product page that says it cannot and the DX517 explicitly says it will work. Is there a reason you aren't going with a 5ish bay unit all up front? Not enough cash on hand?
Is this a deviation from the synology naming scheme of XYY where X is the max supported drives with expansion units and YY is the release year?

deong
Jun 13, 2001

I'll see you in heck!


H110Hawk posted:

It has the needed esata port, I assume it will "just work" as there is nothing on the DS218+ product page that says it cannot and the DX517 explicitly says it will work. Is there a reason you aren't going with a 5ish bay unit all up front? Not enough cash on hand?

Mostly cash and physical space.
My plan was to go 2bay til I need to upgrade. I'm just using a 5t external now, and it's worked for maybe 8 years of crap.

Its a mix of backups (I have a 2tb that important stuff is also backed up to) and video files.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


CopperHound posted:

Is this a deviation from the synology naming scheme of XYY where X is the max supported drives with expansion units and YY is the release year?

I don't know the year of release, but the DS218+ is a 2 slot NAS and the DX517 is a 5 slot eXpansion. I assume it's 2018 and 2017 respectively.


deong posted:

Mostly cash and physical space.
My plan was to go 2bay til I need to upgrade. I'm just using a 5t external now, and it's worked for maybe 8 years of crap.

Its a mix of backups (I have a 2tb that important stuff is also backed up to) and video files.

If you're strapped for cash then it makes sense. Otherwise remember that you can leave slots open on a larger unit for later expansion. I bought my DS1815+ (8 slots) with only 3 disks originally. Remember though that your whole expansion unit cannot go faster than a single SATA port. This might not be an issue for you if it's just doing usual consumer stuff.

Pardot
Jul 25, 2001


CopperHound posted:

Is this a deviation from the synology naming scheme of XYY where X is the max supported drives with expansion units and YY is the release year?

I just got a 1019+ which has 5 drives not 10.

deong posted:

Mostly cash and physical space.
My plan was to go 2bay til I need to upgrade. I'm just using a 5t external now, and it's worked for maybe 8 years of crap.

Its a mix of backups (I have a 2tb that important stuff is also backed up to) and video files.

For what it's worth, I was on a 2 bay one since like 2013, and just upgraded to the 5 bay one. I'm only using two drives now in it (new 10TB drives) in it in SHR1. That should last me a few years and then once it's time to expand my plan is to get 3 future cheaper 10TB drives, start a new SHR2 raid, move things over to that, and do one rebuild to add the old 2 drives to it. Even if I don’t go with that plan exactly, the extra 3 slots offer a lot of flexibility.

Looten Plunder
Jul 11, 2006


Grimey Drawer

Shit, forgot about a UPS (this is getting fucking expensive).

What size UPS (watage/VA) do i need for a 4 bay NAS?

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012



Pardot posted:

I just got a 1019+ which has 5 drives not 10.

DS1019+ posted:

Up to 10 drives with one DX517
and

DS1819+ posted:

Up to 18 drives with two DX517

As far as I can tell, DS218+ can use esata for an external drive but you cant span your volume to it.

https://www.synology.com/en-us/know...Expansion_Units

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


Looten Plunder posted:

Shit, forgot about a UPS (this is getting fucking expensive).

What size UPS (watage/VA) do i need for a 4 bay NAS?

You would: look at the power draw of your equipment, then get a UPS that can run that equipment for a sufficient amount of time. Same as when picking a UPS for a PC or any other equipment.

So if a single 3.5" drive draws, I dunno, 10-20 W, I'd ballpark 100 W max for that 4-bay NAS? (Probably less in continuous operation, but you want to budget for a worst-case scenario.) Then you look at the specs for a few UPSs to figure out if you can get 5, 10, etc., minutes of runtime.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


A 7200 RPM drive is about 5W under load. Maybe a little less for 5400 RPM and if they spin down it drops to like 1/2 W or something.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


So maybe a 10 W surge per drive if all 4 spin up? Budget 50 W for the whole NAS? I mean my point was the guy has to look at the power draw of his NAS rather than asking other people on the Internet to guess it.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003



I have 3 Synology units/28 drives, 10 PoE cameras, switch, cable modem, router, a crappy laptop, a windows desktop, a 70 inch TV, receiver, speakers and a PS3 all plugged in to the same 1500VA UPS and I saw it hit like 800 watts once.

Stuff doesn't really use very much nowadays.

Duck and Cover
Apr 6, 2007


Atomizer posted:

You would: look at the power draw of your equipment, then get a UPS that can run that equipment for a sufficient amount of time. Same as when picking a UPS for a PC or any other equipment.

So if a single 3.5" drive draws, I dunno, 10-20 W, I'd ballpark 100 W max for that 4-bay NAS? (Probably less in continuous operation, but you want to budget for a worst-case scenario.) Then you look at the specs for a few UPSs to figure out if you can get 5, 10, etc., minutes of runtime.

Don't be absurd you buy one from Costco because you're lazy and don't want to figure that shit out. Then when you have it you leave in box and don't bother setting it up.Sheesh this isn't hard! We even have a generator but it doesn't seamlessly switch over.

Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jun 21, 2019

Ika
Dec 30, 2004
Pure insanity



IOwnCalculus posted:

Two shipments with at least a month difference in production date if I remember correctly.

Now they all came from Amazon so it's entirely possible they were mishandled before they got to me, but who knows. Half were basically DOA, the other half would work for one to six hours or so before slowing to an utter crawl and then dying.

When I bought a WD internal drive from amazon it arrived without the default plastic padding, just a bit of wadded up paper. Guess how long it took for it to die. (And who never ordered internal drives from amazon again)

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