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Tedronai66
Aug 24, 2006
Better to Reign in Hell...

I'm upgrading (well, converting) my RAID5 server to more of a lower-power NAS box. I've ordered this mobo/cpu/vga combo.

It'll be going in a antec 300 case with a modular/80 plus psu.

I was pondering putting OpenMediaVault on it with a USB flash drive, but I see that it seems to hammer drives with writes/can wear out the drive. Is there any similar option? Do FreeNAS/NAS4Free have the same issue? I was pondering the use of SnapRAID instead of a traditional RAID5 (and don't really want raid-z1, as from what I've read I can't just add a drive to the pool), and the use of debian with OMV makes the installation easy with PPA's.

yomisei
Mar 18, 2011


Tedronai66 posted:

I'm upgrading (well, converting) my RAID5 server to more of a lower-power NAS box. I've ordered this mobo/cpu/vga combo.

It'll be going in a antec 300 case with a modular/80 plus psu.

I was pondering putting OpenMediaVault on it with a USB flash drive, but I see that it seems to hammer drives with writes/can wear out the drive. Is there any similar option? Do FreeNAS/NAS4Free have the same issue? I was pondering the use of SnapRAID instead of a traditional RAID5 (and don't really want raid-z1, as from what I've read I can't just add a drive to the pool), and the use of debian with OMV makes the installation easy with PPA's.

For low power systems you'll get way more bang for the buck with low watt gold rated PSUs like the Sea Sonic G-Series 360W or one of the amazing FSP Fortron/Source EGA/EGN(90) OEM PSUs that you probably never find on the open market. PSUs seem like a huge pitfall to me in these times, all these 80+ ratings and stuff, but all that matters is low watt + good reviews (i.e. good low watt efficiency).

FreeNAS and consorts mount memory disks for volatile data folders like /var and the rest is mounted read only, so no, it won't wear out.

Tedronai66
Aug 24, 2006
Better to Reign in Hell...

yomisei posted:

For low power systems you'll get way more bang for the buck with low watt gold rated PSUs like the Sea Sonic G-Series 360W or one of the amazing FSP Fortron/Source EGA/EGN(90) OEM PSUs that you probably never find on the open market. PSUs seem like a huge pitfall to me in these times, all these 80+ ratings and stuff, but all that matters is low watt + good reviews (i.e. good low watt efficiency).

FreeNAS and consorts mount memory disks for volatile data folders like /var and the rest is mounted read only, so no, it won't wear out.

Well, the psu is already bought, so maybe it'll be faulty and I can return it? I'm running with a fairly old (definitely not 80+ rated) psu right now and a core2duo system.

Sabnzbd is fairly easy to setup on freenas/nas4free as well, right? I'd probably still be doing snapraid for easier expandability.

tarepanda
Mar 26, 2011

Living the Dream

Tedronai66 posted:

Sabnzbd is fairly easy to setup on freenas/nas4free as well, right? I'd probably still be doing snapraid for easier expandability.

Someone made a plugin for it, yeah.

I still haven't gotten Couchpotato working, though.

Tedronai66
Aug 24, 2006
Better to Reign in Hell...

tarepanda posted:

Someone made a plugin for it, yeah.

I still haven't gotten Couchpotato working, though.

I usually have CP/Sickbeard or NZBDrone on my main pc or htpc and just queue up downloads from there, so that's not an issue.

Fitret
Mar 25, 2003

We are rolling for the King of All Cosmos!

I hate to cross-post, but my RAID5 array is dead and I am very worried that I have just lost all of my data despite the fact that I have 4/5 good drives! Details are in a HoTS thread and I'd really love any advice or suggestions you guys have. At this point I'm at a loss with what to try next. http://forums.somethingawful.com/fo...php?forumid=170

Lowen SoDium
Jun 5, 2003

Highen Fiber


Clapping Larry

One of my brand new WD RED 3TB drives died after the first hour and just clicks.

Am I better RMAing it to Newegg or WD?

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

Newegg will be great in my experience. Never tried an RMA with WD.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

Lowen SoDium posted:

One of my brand new WD RED 3TB drives died after the first hour and just clicks.

Am I better RMAing it to Newegg or WD?
Out of curiosity, how was it packed?

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


If its the same price id order a new one and return the old one.

Lowen SoDium
Jun 5, 2003

Highen Fiber


Clapping Larry

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

Out of curiosity, how was it packed?

I ordered 3 of those drives. They are all inside part of a Styrofoam caddie that was molded to hold several hard drives. It was torn off of a larger piece of styroform caddie and it was wrapped in a single layer of bubble wrap and tape.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

ああ!彼からのメールだ!

College Slice

I'm still looking onto FreeNAS stuff, and I saw some documentation about the file system. How much faster is NFS vs CFIS? I have Win7 Pro so I can go through the hassle of getting the Unix stuff.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

ああ!彼からのメールだ!

College Slice

Shitttt double post

yomisei
Mar 18, 2011


Phone posted:

I'm still looking onto FreeNAS stuff, and I saw some documentation about the file system. How much faster is NFS vs CFIS? I have Win7 Pro so I can go through the hassle of getting the Unix stuff.

Afaik you need the Enterprise edition for the native NFS client. But CFIS is fast enough and integrates much cleaner into windows. To clarify, NFS/CFIS aren't filesystems (zfs is), they're protocols for network sharing. Both type of shares can easily be set up in the GUI anyways, even in parallel on the same path. I don't have a single problem with CFIS as my G630T handles 95MB/s without coming near dangerous high cpu loads. It's just a matter of apples and oranges, pick your poison.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

ああ!彼からのメールだ!

College Slice

yomisei posted:

Afaik you need the Enterprise edition for the native NFS client. But CFIS is fast enough and integrates much cleaner into windows. To clarify, NFS/CFIS aren't filesystems (zfs is), they're protocols for network sharing. Both type of shares can easily be set up in the GUI anyways, even in parallel on the same path. I don't have a single problem with CFIS as my G630T handles 95MB/s without coming near dangerous high cpu loads. It's just a matter of apples and oranges, pick your poison.

Man, I know that CFIS is Samba and I still called it a FS.

Thanks for the input.

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003



It's CIFS, and it's actually SMB.

Ninja Rope
Oct 22, 2005

Wee.


I had a DOA WD RED from Newegg. I opted to go with WD because Newegg's return policy wants me to pay for shipping and they won't cross-ship. WD cross-shipped but wanted me to pay for shipping, but I bitched on the phone about having to pay shipping on a DOA product and they said they'd give me a "one time" pre-paid mailer. Newegg's website does say to contact the vendor for support, so I guess it's up to you who you use.

Lowen SoDium
Jun 5, 2003

Highen Fiber


Clapping Larry

Ninja Rope posted:

I had a DOA WD RED from Newegg. I opted to go with WD because Newegg's return policy wants me to pay for shipping and they won't cross-ship. WD cross-shipped but wanted me to pay for shipping, but I bitched on the phone about having to pay shipping on a DOA product and they said they'd give me a "one time" pre-paid mailer. Newegg's website does say to contact the vendor for support, so I guess it's up to you who you use.

Yeah, I ultimately went with WD for the RMA so I could get it cross shipped and hopefully get the replacement faster.

frumpsnake
Jan 30, 2001

The sad part is, he wasn't always evil.

yomisei posted:

Afaik you need the Enterprise edition for the native NFS client.

The NFS client that Microsoft include with Enterprise/Server is actually the University of Michigan's NFS client (which MS sponsored development of). You can install compile from source or use UMich's binaries if you really want NFS on other versions of Windows. It's not particularly intuitive to install, but it does seem quite stable.

But no, I just use CIFS on Windows machines too.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Phone posted:

I'm still looking onto FreeNAS stuff, and I saw some documentation about the file system. How much faster is NFS vs CFIS? I have Win7 Pro so I can go through the hassle of getting the Unix stuff.
After toying with my NAS4Free setup for a bit, I can comfortably get 90-100MB/s on most things with CIFS, which is pretty much the max for GigE hardware, so I don't really see the advantage of NFS unless you're actually experiencing a problem with CIFS performance. CIFS is enormously easier to set up, so you might as well at least start there and see how it goes.

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003



Ninja Rope posted:

I had a DOA WD RED from Newegg. I opted to go with WD because Newegg's return policy wants me to pay for shipping and they won't cross-ship.
And they wonder why people want to buy from amazon instead.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

ああ!彼からのメールだ!

College Slice

evil_bunnY posted:

And they wonder why people want to buy from amazon instead.

Because camelcamelcamel showed the WD Red at an all time low price?

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

Wow, I got sorta lucky for once when it comes to pricing on computer parts, normally I've been utterly screwed buying something only to have a completely new thing obsolete it within 2 months. Hopefully these two WD Reds I just got in from Amazon are good. Gonna be building out a box this weekend and I kinda need these to work.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

DrDork posted:

After toying with my NAS4Free setup for a bit, I can comfortably get 90-100MB/s on most things with CIFS, which is pretty much the max for GigE hardware, so I don't really see the advantage of NFS unless you're actually experiencing a problem with CIFS performance. CIFS is enormously easier to set up, so you might as well at least start there and see how it goes.

Could you say a little bit about what you did to achieve 100MB/s?

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



taqueso posted:

Could you say a little bit about what you did to achieve 100MB/s?
I've setup 8 different FreeNAS setups and on 7 of these it achieved optimal speeds with default settings.
The only exception to this was a Dell server with 10GbE and 11 raidz3 15k RPM SAS drives which needed two mirrored SSDS for zil and another for cache to keep up for its specific workload, plus dedup had to be enabled as it was a datastore for ESXi.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

I'm actually not using FreeNAS, just Samba under linux. I only get 9-12MB/s, depending on whether I have raw reads & writes enabled. I don't have jumbo frames, but I could with some changes to the network topology. Are jumbo frames really a 10x speed increase? I'm pretty sure I have fast enough disks, I am running 4x WD Reds in RAID10 and see more than 250MB/s locally.

The network is probably not optimal by any stretch, we have a decent ProCurve switch as the main switch, but the clients are on little Netgear 5-port switches with some slow devices like old printers. I don't see more than 12MB/s when I connect the server and client through only the ProCurve, though.

Here are my socket options, are there other parts of smb.conf that relate to performance?
code:
socket options = TCP_NODELAY IPTOS_LOWDELAY SO_KEEPALIVE SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



taqueso posted:

I'm actually not using FreeNAS, just Samba under linux. I only get 9-12MB/s, depending on whether I have raw reads & writes enabled. I don't have jumbo frames, but I could with some changes to the network topology. Are jumbo frames really a 10x speed increase? I'm pretty sure I have fast enough disks, I am running 4x WD Reds in RAID10 and see more than 250MB/s locally.

The network is probably not optimal by any stretch, we have a decent ProCurve switch as the main switch, but the clients are on little Netgear 5-port switches with some slow devices like old printers. I don't see more than 12MB/s when I connect the server and client through only the ProCurve, though.

Here are my socket options, are there other parts of smb.conf that relate to performance?
code:
socket options = TCP_NODELAY IPTOS_LOWDELAY SO_KEEPALIVE SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192
Check that the switch and all of your gear is set to use 1000BaseT.

Goon Matchmaker
Oct 23, 2003

I play too much EVE-Online

taqueso posted:

I don't see more than 12MB/s when I connect the server and client through only the ProCurve, though.

You're running at 100Mbps not 1000Mbps. Check your switch. Also remove the samba tuning options. For the most part those aren't needed anymore.

Ninja Rope
Oct 22, 2005

Wee.


evil_bunnY posted:

And they wonder why people want to buy from amazon instead.

I bought half my drives from Amazon and half from Newegg so I wouldn't end up with everything from one batch, and of course it was a Newegg drive that was DOA.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

D. Ebdrup posted:

Check that the switch and all of your gear is set to use 1000BaseT.

Goon Matchmaker posted:

You're running at 100Mbps not 1000Mbps. Check your switch. Also remove the samba tuning options. For the most part those aren't needed anymore.

I decided to disconnect everything but our router, server, and my PC. The switch management page says the three ports are all 1000Mb/s. Ethtool says the server is 1000Mb/s full duplex. Windows says my PC is 1000Mb/s.

Transfer speed, reading a large file from the server over SMB: bounces between 13.1 and 15 MB/s. SCP is only 3.5MB/s.

I'm not sure about the quality of the wiring in the walls, so I reconnected everything with CAT6 patch cables. Same speeds.

The server is a C2D @ 2.6GHz with 4GB RAM.

e: Forgot to mention that I power cycled the switch and rebooted the PCs.
e2: Connected everything again and tested reading from our Synology 212j with RAID-1 WD Green disks: 20-25MB/s.

taqueso fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jan 31, 2013

Goon Matchmaker
Oct 23, 2003

I play too much EVE-Online

What kind of NIC is in the server?

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

There are two onboard NICs, lspci says: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 01)

I can pull an Intel gbit NIC from a workstation, but I probably have to wait until the user goes home.

Also, did a quick check and the server reads at 20MB/s from the diskstation over SMB.

e: Found out with lspci -k that I am using r8169 driver for the NIC, which various google results say is slow/bad. Hopefully that is the culprit.

taqueso fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jan 31, 2013

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

I wouldn't use SCP to measure my bandwidth except in fairly poor connection cases because the window size for SCP is basically way, way suboptimal by definition of the standard.

Oh, and when I was using a Realtek NIC before on my old NAS I used to get about 30MBps and with an Intel NIC it went to about 45MBps which was close enough to near-local for me (the local speeds weren't very good either for various reasons).

Goon Matchmaker
Oct 23, 2003

I play too much EVE-Online

taqueso posted:

There are two onboard NICs, lspci says: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 01)

I can pull an Intel gbit NIC from a workstation, but I probably have to wait until the user goes home.

Also, did a quick check and the server reads at 20MB/s from the diskstation over SMB.

e: Found out with lspci -k that I am using r8169 driver for the NIC, which various google results say is slow/bad. Hopefully that is the culprit.

Yeah that's going to be the culprit. Shove an intel nic in there and you should see 100MB/s.

SilentGeek
Jul 24, 2011



I'm putting together an N40L with FreeNAS 8 and 3 x 2TB WD Red drives and am planning on setting it up with Raid-Z. I was curious if it will be possible in the future to add a couple extra drives to the RAID without having to rebuild the entire RAID. Sorry if this has been asked already.

Also if I wanted to password protect only certain files on the NAS would I need to setup a separate dataset on the RAID volume to hold the data I want password protected? I'm putting this together so I can stream videos and such across the house but I also want to keep all of my working documents on it so I can access them from anywhere in the house. I don't care who has access to the videos and music but would rather that only I had access to my documents.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

Goon Matchmaker posted:

Yeah that's going to be the culprit. Shove an intel nic in there and you should see 100MB/s.

Woo! This is exactly right. Put in an Intel 82574L and I'm getting 100-108MB/s!!!

Thanks for the input everyone.

Froist
Jun 6, 2004



SilentGeek posted:

I'm putting together an N40L with FreeNAS 8 and 3 x 2TB WD Red drives and am planning on setting it up with Raid-Z. I was curious if it will be possible in the future to add a couple extra drives to the RAID without having to rebuild the entire RAID. Sorry if this has been asked already.

Also if I wanted to password protect only certain files on the NAS would I need to setup a separate dataset on the RAID volume to hold the data I want password protected? I'm putting this together so I can stream videos and such across the house but I also want to keep all of my working documents on it so I can access them from anywhere in the house. I don't care who has access to the videos and music but would rather that only I had access to my documents.

Short answer: ZFS doesn't allow you to add disks to the array to expand capacity later.

If you're only accessing the files over the network, ie no direct access to the box/SSH accounts for the other people in your house, you can just configure separate shared folders with different permissions. I do exactly this with my N40L/Ubuntu/ZFS box. I've never tried using NFS, only Samba. With Samba you can either just password protect the share (so people can browse your shares and see "SilentGeek's dirty videos" but not get in it) or hide them from view completely so you need to know the share name to access it.

SilentGeek
Jul 24, 2011



Froist posted:

Short answer: ZFS doesn't allow you to add disks to the array to expand capacity later.

If you're only accessing the files over the network, ie no direct access to the box/SSH accounts for the other people in your house, you can just configure separate shared folders with different permissions. I do exactly this with my N40L/Ubuntu/ZFS box. I've never tried using NFS, only Samba. With Samba you can either just password protect the share (so people can browse your shares and see "SilentGeek's dirty videos" but not get in it) or hide them from view completely so you need to know the share name to access it.

Oh well. I guess I'll just have to backup the system and rebuild the array if I want to add drives. I've never worked with Samba either but I'm glad I'll be able to easily password protect stuff. Thanks Froist.

SilentGeek fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Jan 31, 2013

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





If you can cram another three drives in there, you could grow by adding another RAIDZ vdev to your pool. You do still lose another disk to redundancy, but you gain the performance of striping multiple RAIDZ arrays, and everything is still in one giant pool rather than having to manually move things around.

SilentGeek
Jul 24, 2011



Has anyone had a problem with freeNAS 8 shares not being accessible on computers using a Wi-Fi connection without entering the IP address? I can see the shares on my Win7 machines in the network but if I try and open them it gives me a no connection error. I can access them though by typing the IP address of the NAS into the address bar. I've tried this on all my Wi-fi connected computers and its the only way I can connect. Wired computers can access the shares normally.

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