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Combat Pretzel posted:S11X should support 4KB sectors, AFAIK. Interesting...when my drives come in, I'm just going to make a pool really quick and start using zdb/etc to figure out exactly what I'm dealing with and do some basic performance tests. On the hardware side, I'm trying to hunt down the "perfect" combo: - Intel-based (Nehalem or newer) - at least 2 x16 slots, each at x8 electrical at least - integrated video So, X58 boards are basically perfect, except I still need to run a separate videocard (power waste). Most H67 boards are single x16 (even though the chipset can bifurcate CPU PEG into 2 x8, guess the use case just isn't there). Don't really want to shell out big bucks for a server board. H55 I know is incompatible (or was, at least). I guess I could use a X58 with my PCI ATI Rage XL for video, that'll probably only be 5W or so. That's what my current plan was, P45 board + that PCI card for video.
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Heres some final performance tests with my ZFS setup before moving over everything from my aging WHS setup. CPU: AMD Athlon II X2 250 MB: MSI MS-7623 w/ 8GB DDR3 HBA: SuperMicro USAS-L8i FreeBSD version 8.2-RC1 ZFS pool version 15 5x Spinpoint F4 2TB 5400 RPM (RaidZ1: Media) 5x HDS721010CLA332 1TB 7200 RPM (RaidZ1: Storage) Pool: media (ashift=12) Read throughput: 431.3 MB/s Write throughput: 349.2 MB/s Pool: media (ashift=9) Read throughput: 470.9 MB/s Write throughput: 330.7 MB/s Pool: storage (ashift=9) Read throughput: 468.8 MB/s Write throughput: 257 MB/s
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movax posted:Interesting...when my drives come in, I'm just going to make a pool really quick and start using zdb/etc to figure out exactly what I'm dealing with and do some basic performance tests.
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Combat Pretzel posted:I have no 4KB drives to test, but before Oracle closed development, it was in the patch notes of one of the 13x builds. Hm, then why the need for a modified binary to force a specific ashift? Or does Solaris Express take care of it transparently?
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I have no idea, but I figure that explicit support for native 4KB addressing also means that no hacks whatsoever are necessary, since there'd be no alignment issues to begin with (which happen only when the drive is set to 512 bytes legacy mode, I guess via a jumper on the drive or something). --edit: I googled a bit and it seems that: - All current 4KB sector disks do always emulate 512 bytes sectors (WTF). - ZFS alignes full disks properly to begin with. I checked mine and the pool area in the GPT label starts at sector 256. --edit2: In regards to ashift, I don't get the idea behind it. I think it sets the minimum block size. Unless a file is smaller than the record size, every block is always 128KB (or whatever you overrode the default with) without tail packing. They should always be aligned. The only instances where that differs is with metadata, small files and compressed files. Small files will be packed to the smallest power-of-2 block size possible, with 512 bytes being the smallest. Most metadata is made up of micro ZAPs, which will mostly also fit into 512 bytes, especially because metadata is compressed by default. Compressed files have variable block sizes all over the place. Since the benchmarks with the different ashifts aren't that much different, I figure that all the metadata updates are throwing the performance off. --edit3: Further googling confirmes my guesses. ashift sets the minimum record size. It's the power of two defining it. (2^9 = 512, 2^12 = 4096). Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jan 29, 2011 |
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Hopefully this is the right thread for dumb questions, I've skimmed the last few pages and it's all way over my head. I'm looking around for a 500GB-1TB NAS box for home, something cheap and small that I can dump in the corner by the router and never see again. Do you have any recommendations?
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Tempo 119 posted:Hopefully this is the right thread for dumb questions, I've skimmed the last few pages and it's all way over my head. Get a cheap synology model.
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Can we talk cases? I'm going to start a new build, with the intention of running Linux software RAID5 on a H67 system with 4 3.5" disks and possibly a 2.5" for the OS. Here's what I'm looking for in a case: * Mini-ITX * As small as possible * As quiet as possible * 4 3.5" bays + 1 2.5" bay (ideally, hot-swap bays for the 3.5") * If the PS is included, must be powerful enough to run a Sandy Bridge CPU * Having a slimline optical bay would be nice Here's what I've found so far: Chenbro ES34169: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811123154 I like the size and layout and hot-swap bays -- not sure how I feel about an external PS though, and I haven't done the math on how comfortably it could handle an i5 and 5 disks. Fractal Array R2: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=53545 Pretty, but no optical, no hot-swap, and seems a little larger than I'd like. I like that I can use my own SFX PS. LinITX A7879: http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12789 Hotswap is nice. I don't think there's an optical bay. Not sure if 200W is enough. Lian-Li PC-Q08: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811112265 Seems a bit large. No hotswap. I didn't like the one Lian-Li case I owned many years ago. Is there anything else I should be looking at? EDIT: Nevermind I guess the Chenbro has a proprietary internal 120W PS. Seems more appropriate for Atom than for SB. frunksock fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Jan 31, 2011 |
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frunksock posted:Chenbro ES34169: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16811123154 I have the 180W version of that case with five drives (4 Spinpoint F4s and a small SSD for boot with an i3 540 - the HDDs have to spin up sequentially or I get Vdroop). The 120W version has an internal PSU, but be sure you go with an S variant (2400s, 2100s) if you go that way; I don't think it could handle a 95W TDP part. I have a 120W version running a 45W TDP Sempron WHS box with no problems, as well, so don't underestimate it. Note that the Core i3 2100 series is coming out in a few weeks, so you get all the Sandy Bridge goodness without having to go to an i5, if you want. The external PSU is annoying, but not that much, really. E: I like that second case for its expansion card slot. That's the one thing I don't like about the Chenbro case, though it probably isn't too hard to find an appropriate riser for a small card. Factory Factory fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Jan 31, 2011 |
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devmd01 posted:Then you need to give a good idea of what you really want and are capable of computer/networking wise. People in this thread are running devices that are basically a hard drive with a network port, all the way up to enterprise-grade raid arrays with multipath I/O for their torrent server virtual machines. I'm guessing what you want is somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. I'm somewhere in the middle, but closer to enterprise grade. Needs to be fast because I'm going to use it for video editing
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frunksock posted:* Having a slimline optical bay would be nice I think you should just drop the optical bay requirement; you only are going to install the OS once (hopefully), just leave the case open with a standard SATA DVD-ROM while you install the OS, then remove it and seal the case back up. My Norco has a slimline optical drive slot as well, but I don't really want to pay $50 for a drive I use once every two years. Solaris 11 Express trip report: - power scaling working OK according to powertop, E6600 bounces between 1.6GHz stepping up to 2.4GHz, which is good. I think I left it overclocked, not sure why powertop is reporting 2413MHz instead of 2800-something. - no streams of "errors"/messages in dmesg, which is nice - still have to test drive power management - two 1068Es co-existing, though one isn't populated yet - still can't get Home/End/Del working properly with PuTTY - NetBIOS name actually working! - no GUI/XServer whatsoever, hooray! - apcupsd running smoothly - smartctl running smoothly Hardware: Asus P5Q PRO (Intel P45), E6600, 8GB RAM 18 Seagate ST32000542AS arriving tomorrow, going to make a new pool with them, modified ashift on each vdev with them. Also activating a SSD as L2ARC/ZIL. Currently VMs are on a 2x 250GB mirror, I'm hoping to pick up a ~100G SSD around holiday time to replace that with to save power (and single SSD reliability I trust). movax fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jan 31, 2011 |
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frunksock posted:LinITX A7879: http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12789 I've got one of these. No, there's no optical bay, you have to use some sort of external drive to install the OS. Build quality is good, the hotswap bays work nicely with my 1Tb drives, although screwing the drives into the trays can be a bit finicky. The fan to cool it all is a little noisy for my liking combined with my Atom CPU cooler but nothing too bad. I run Server 2008 R2 with 5 drives and never hit any issues with the power supply. One thing you can do if you feel sufficiently competent with a drill - there's room down the side of the hot swap bays for an additional 3.5" drive if you drill some holes in the side of the case and mount the drive directly on the case wall. You'd need a splitter to get enough molex adaptors to power 6 drives as the included kit only has enough for 5 drives (the 4 hotswap bays are powered by 2 molex points, and you get a splitter with a SATA power connector for the 2.5" bay). All in all, a very workmanlike case - no frills, but decent quality nonetheless.
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Thanks for the replies, guys.Factory Factory posted:I have the 180W version of that case with five drives (4 Spinpoint F4s and a small SSD for boot with an i3 540 - the HDDs have to spin up sequentially or I get Vdroop). The 120W version has an internal PSU, but be sure you go with an S variant (2400s, 2100s) if you go that way; I don't think it could handle a 95W TDP part. I have a 120W version running a 45W TDP Sempron WHS box with no problems, as well, so don't underestimate it. Note that the Core i3 2100 series is coming out in a few weeks, so you get all the Sandy Bridge goodness without having to go to an i5, if you want. movax posted:I think you should just drop the optical bay requirement; you only are going to install the OS once (hopefully), just leave the case open with a standard SATA DVD-ROM while you install the OS, then remove it and seal the case back up. My Norco has a slimline optical drive slot as well, but I don't really want to pay $50 for a drive I use once every two years. Mr Crucial posted:I've got one of these. No, there's no optical bay, you have to use some sort of external drive to install the OS. Build quality is good, the hotswap bays work nicely with my 1Tb drives, although screwing the drives into the trays can be a bit finicky. The fan to cool it all is a little noisy for my liking combined with my Atom CPU cooler but nothing too bad. I run Server 2008 R2 with 5 drives and never hit any issues with the power supply.
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:That's a known dedup issue, backup your files to someplace else, delete the pools and rebuild them without dedup enabled. In case anyone else runs into this, re-creating the pools without dedup solved the crash-on-large-delete issue for me.
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Minus Pants posted:In case anyone else runs into this, re-creating the pools without dedup solved the crash-on-large-delete issue for me. It's not quite a crash. I had this same thing happen to me, and found some "bug" reports. What happens is it locks IO on the pool and then examines every single block you're deleting to see if it can actually delete it or not. I rm -rf'ed about 1 TB of deduped data (dedup ration of 1.00, waste of CPU cycles) and the machine sort of crashed, I rebooted it, it hung at "loading ZFS pools" or somesuch for a couple days, then came back normally. So if you can, just delete the dataset (not pools, just filesystem) rather than individual files.
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OK...I've read the last few pages of this thread (Everything since Jan 1st) and this is all far more complicated than I anticipated. What I know is that I don't want the hassle of doing a custom build, and I don't know enough about any of this to bother with custom configurations in Linux anyhow. I'm looking for something that can do RAID 5 and allow me to stream movies (preferably, if I had to transfer them first, I can deal with that) to my computer/PS3, as well as house my music and pictures so I can worry less about a Hard Drive crash. Further, I don't want to have to keep swapping Hard Drives every time I upgrade my computer (which is somewhat frequent...just because I want to). Basically, I want to be able to plug it into my network, share with my roommates, and forget about it. I also know I don't want anything that uses a proprietary File System (I Had some Netgear thing about 2 years ago that crashed and I had no way to recover data). So, if something goes wrong, I can at least plug the drives directly into a computer and recover my data. I've been looking at this for a couple weeks now (and I've seen it mentioned in here): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16822108050 What, exactly, are the advantages of the 410 over the 411J? I see that the 411J has a faster processor, but the 410 has much more memory. Are these the only substantial differences? I also saw this in here: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/hard...s/RAID/Desktop/ And I would be interested in it as well, if it offers me a better overall solution. Thanks for your help!
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410 is the older model, 411j is newer but the budget line. First number is the quantity of internal drives it accepts second two numbers are the model number, suffixes determine the line/quality. I think there's the standard, then the j line, and then the "+" line, though to be honest the + may simply be the updated standard models when they make minor changes. There are some exceptions, like the new 1511+, which is 5 drives, but that's the basics of the naming I'd recommend the 211+ or 411+, depending on how many drives you need. Many of their models also have upgradable RAM. Check out smallnetbuilder.com for full info and teardowns.
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Thanks. I have two 1.5TB drives in a RAID 1 right now (with a good deal of space currently still available)...so I was planning on throwing those two drives in, and grabbing 2 more 1.5TB drives. The 411+ was a bit on the pricey side for me, but in the grand scheme of things, I think it'll be the better long-term purchase. I was basically trying to talk myself out of it anyhow, which is why I didn't mention it.
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Is Synology going to release a ds411? I'm pretty sure the second two numbers indicated the date. The ds411+ is too much for me, but I think a ds411 would be the sweet spot. I'd like to be able to run sabnzdb and couchpotato while streaming video at the same time.
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JumpinJackFlash posted:Is Synology going to release a ds411? I'm pretty sure the second two numbers indicated the date. The 211 was out last year though.
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My virtual S11X fileserver project failed. Well, it worked practically fine, except that for a while I had issues with certain applications, that failed due to DEP errors (BEX or BEX64), especially 64bit variants. With latter, the MSVCRT runtime went tits up like a clockwork. Turns out that running the VirtualBox VMM caused this. ![]()
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Another potentially stupid question - What would be the "minimum" hardware requirements to do what I detailed above? quote:I'm looking for something that can do RAID 5 and allow me to stream movies (preferably, if I had to transfer them first, I can deal with that) to my computer/PS3, as well as house my music and pictures so I can worry less about a Hard Drive crash. Further, I don't want to have to keep swapping Hard Drives every time I upgrade my computer (which is somewhat frequent...just because I want to). Basically, I want to be able to plug it into my network, share with my roommates, and forget about it. I have all the parts from a 2.41Ghz Athlon 64 3800+ with 4GB of RAM sitting around...could I just install FreeNAS on this and save myself $600?
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Ozmodiar posted:Another potentially stupid question - That's what I've done. I had spare parts and a case lying around, I bought a bunch of drives to go in it and Installed FreeNAS set the drives up with ZFS and boom it's up. The only downside is that it's a little wonky, CIFS/SMB performance may not be awesome (mine isn't, I still blame the drives though) and there are some quirks to work out with the interface and all this stuff may not be present if you buy a hardware device that does everything. If you're not worried about speed or awesome performance, FreeNAS seems like a great idea and also happens to be as cheap as you want. I'm doing 8 drives of ZFS with 8gb of ram but I don't think the system has ever used all the RAM in the first place so yours would be plenty beefy.
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Telex posted:CIFS/SMB performance may not be awesome (mine isn't, I still blame the drives though) There's a relatively high latency for each SMB message. You can get reasonable throughput for larger transfers, but directory listings and small file performance will be ridiculously slow. I tried tweaking every little thing I could find for days before I concluded it's an inherent FreeBSD implementation issue and there's nothing you can do about it.
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Ozmodiar posted:Another potentially stupid question - That's plenty of hardware. More importantly though, what is your network hardware like? Gigabit all the way through? Decent switches? 100Mbit will work fine for streaming a movie to a Popcorn Hour or something, but for slinging files around, it's pretty slow (think about it, 100Mbit is only ~12MB/s where as 1000MBit is more like 120MB/s theoretical, more if you link/aggregate). With Gigabit your bottlneck is your disks, not the network.
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Zhentar posted:There's a relatively high latency for each SMB message. You can get reasonable throughput for larger transfers, but directory listings and small file performance will be ridiculously slow. I tried tweaking every little thing I could find for days before I concluded it's an inherent FreeBSD implementation issue and there's nothing you can do about it. It's a problem with the SMB protocol itself. SMB2 (in Vista and 7) improves performance for small files greatly. I don't know if Solaris' CIFS client supports SMB2, but apparently newer versions of Samba do.
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The fact that SMB takes a large number of messages is a limitation of the protocol, but FreeNAS will take several times longer to respond to each one than other platforms.
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Telex posted:That's what I've done. I had spare parts and a case lying around, I bought a bunch of drives to go in it and Installed FreeNAS set the drives up with ZFS and boom it's up. Is it pretty simple to configure FreeNAS? I have no doubt that I could teach myself to do whatever I wanted...I just didn't really feel like putting an abundance of energy into this. movax posted:That's plenty of hardware. More importantly though, what is your network hardware like? Gigabit all the way through? Decent switches? 100Mbit will work fine for streaming a movie to a Popcorn Hour or something, but for slinging files around, it's pretty slow (think about it, 100Mbit is only ~12MB/s where as 1000MBit is more like 120MB/s theoretical, more if you link/aggregate). With Gigabit your bottlneck is your disks, not the network. Sadly, my "network" right now consists of the standard modem/router that AT&T gave us when we got Uverse...and we're only running wireless...nothing is wired at all. We have to n-band routers sitting around the house, but we can't seem to get either of them to work as a pass-through when we plug them into the Uverse router. If you happen to have any tips/suggestions on this, that would be terrific! I'd even be willing to go invest in a different router/switch if need be...
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Ozmodiar posted:Is it pretty simple to configure FreeNAS? I have no doubt that I could teach myself to do whatever I wanted...I just didn't really feel like putting an abundance of energy into this. configuration is pretty simple honestly. It has a GUI, and most of the things are fairly obvious. You do have to learn a little unix/FreeBSD type things (drive references, mount points, that sort of device management that Windows hides from you) but nothing horribly complex. You can probably have the system up and running in an hour, aside from building whatever raid pool you want. And once you have it up and running you can figure out whatever you want to add to it, myself I have a BitTorrent client, Usenet client, SickBeard and CouchPotato running on mine as well as SMB sharing and it's amazing.
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Telex posted:configuration is pretty simple honestly. It has a GUI, and most of the things are fairly obvious. You do have to learn a little unix/FreeBSD type things (drive references, mount points, that sort of device management that Windows hides from you) but nothing horribly complex. You can probably have the system up and running in an hour, aside from building whatever raid pool you want. Thanks. What would everyone reccomend as a good RAID card that supports RAID 5 then? The motherboard I have is the ASUS A8N-SLI (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16813131517), and the onboard RAID only supports 0/1/0+1... I've just begun looking into Usenet actually...so it's good to know that this could come in handy for that also. Ozmodiar fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Feb 2, 2011 |
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Ozmodiar posted:What would everyone reccomend as a good RAID card that supports RAID 5 then? The motherboard I have is the ASUS A8N-SLI, and the onboard RAID only supports 0/1/0+1... The exact opposite with FreeNAS, you want to do software raid by ZFS with no hardware raid or special cards. This will allow you to move between hardware for failures or upgrades only needing your hard drives. When you install FreeNAS you want to expose all your hard drives to the system without any sort of RAID controller in the way and assemble them into a software raid. Example, I'm running it on a system with a PERC6 raid controller relying on my CPU/RAM to perform the RAID for me via ZFS raidz1 in FreeNAS. Take a look at the feature list of ZFS in wikipedia.
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Oh, wow. OK. Well then...that solves that problem (and saves me money!). I can just buy two more HDD and plug them into my motherboard then.
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Alright, so I'm a little annoyed, I can't get SMART data for my disks behind my LSI 1068E HBAs. smartmontools can't get it, SUNWhd is only available from Oracle support (or a X4500 thumper CD). At least fmdump/fmadm will report errors, but I'd still like my SMART data. It's weird, because I know it worked in the past, but that was OpenSolaris with an older version of smartctl. It looks like I should have found a motherboard with 3 PCI-X boards and bought Marvell Hercules based controllers. Thinking about investigating making cards that toss the 88SX6081 behind a PCIe x4 interface.
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Dumb question #2: I'm groaning at my iostat perf moving data from old array to new (iostat -xtc 5), and I see this: code:
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Sum up the number of drives less the number of parity bits.
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Zhentar posted:Sum up the number of drives less the number of parity bits. Gotcha, so 35*4, 140MB. I still feel its taken far too long to move 405G of music from one array to another, I ran the cp command with 'time' this time, will see what happens. CPU's crying, load averages 2.47, 2.55, 2.39, no de-dup or anything, hrm...maybe I should invest in a SNB (or last-gen X58 for savings) upgrade to core hardware. No problems so far with ashift=12'd vdev. e: run finished, 406G cp command, 94 minutes, ugh, that's terrible. Playing with bonnie++ now. e2: not a bad bonniee++ run, code:
movax fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Feb 2, 2011 |
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Synology announced a D411slim to replace the 409slim that should be available in a couple weeks. Depending on the price, I might pick one up.
Star War Sex Parrot fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:Synology announced a D411slim to replace the 409slim that should be available in a couple weeks. Depending on the price, I might pick one up. Why does their page say it only supports 1TB drives?
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Because that's the largest 2.5" disk capacity drive available?
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:Synology announced a D411slim to replace the 409slim that should be available in a couple weeks. Depending on the price, I might pick one up. MrMoo posted:Because that's the largest 2.5" disk capacity drive available?
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