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Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.



Fun Shoe

Axe-man posted:

God help them if they have IoT shit. I've worked with some of those where the only thing I can say is that they are just attack vectors. Some you can Telenet right into without password authentication and get root access.



I'm pretty sure Telnet was the best invention ever. Although I just used to use it to play MUDs (and I occasionally run a MUD on one of my servers).

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

IoT is going to be the downfall of many networks. It's going to be horrific.

EVIL Gibson
Mar 23, 2001

Internet of Things is just someone else's computer that people can't help attaching cameras and door locks to!


Switchblade Switcharoo

redeyes posted:

IoT is going to be the downfall of many networks. It's going to be horrific.

Surprised people aren't freaking out more having people talk to them over their indoor security cameras.

Duck and Cover
Apr 6, 2007


Whatever happened to just calling shit internet (lol cloud) enabled?

Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Oct 6, 2019

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell



Duck and Cover posted:

Whatever happened to just calling shit internet (lol Cloud) enabled?

Whether it's a good term or not, there's a difference between "internet" enabled and "cloud" enabled.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


Thermopyle posted:

Whether it's a good term or not, there's a difference between "internet" enabled and "cloud" enabled.



You've not had to listen to marketing / sales jerks talk about it then.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell



H110Hawk posted:



You've not had to listen to marketing / sales jerks talk about it then.

Oh yea I have!

I'm not saying that it's a good term consistently applied, I'm just saying "internet" enabled is not the same thing as what normally gets labeled "cloud" and that's why you need a different word.

I have an IP cam in a drawer somewhere from like 2005 that's internet enabled and doesn't talk to any servers anywhere.

Duck and Cover
Apr 6, 2007


It's okay cloud is dead long live internet of things.

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

Hell most people don't understand 3hat a cloud is and barely understand what internet is so it is all the same to them. Join us in swimming in bad terminology.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



was invented for talking about all these things.

Kalenden
Oct 30, 2012


I'm not that comfortable running and doing stuff using the systems of QNAP (Container Station and so on) but was wondering if it is a good idea to just have a permanent (Ubuntu) VM running and doing all my self-hosted stuff from there? This would definitely be HomeAssistant and potentially other self-hosted tools (NextCloud?). I have a QNAP TS-453B with a Celeron CPU J3455 @ 1.50GHz and 8GB RAM.

Is the hardware powerful enough?

Any experiences or guides with/for this?

Can you recommend a certain VM or work-practice? As is evident, I'm still very much a novice to the self-hosted / DIY / Home Automation scene.

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.



Fun Shoe

Kalenden posted:

I'm not that comfortable running and doing stuff using the systems of QNAP (Container Station and so on) but was wondering if it is a good idea to just have a permanent (Ubuntu) VM running and doing all my self-hosted stuff from there? This would definitely be HomeAssistant and potentially other self-hosted tools (NextCloud?). I have a QNAP TS-453B with a Celeron CPU J3455 @ 1.50GHz and 8GB RAM.

Is the hardware powerful enough?

Any experiences or guides with/for this?

Can you recommend a certain VM or work-practice? As is evident, I'm still very much a novice to the self-hosted / DIY / Home Automation scene.

Yes the hardware is powerful enough. When I run VMs on my NAS I'm using a dual core ARM cpu in my QNAP.

Not sure.

At very least once you have the VM working the way you want save a copy/image of it.

Duck and Cover
Apr 6, 2007


Duck and Cover posted:

On another note fuck docker/permissions. I kind of wanted to try Sonarr in it but it seemed to be too much of a hassle to interact with sabnbz unless it too is in a docker container.

Or it's easy and I'm an idiot of course the old preferences wouldn't work and I need to change localhost blah. I still hate dealing with anything permission related security be damned.

Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Oct 7, 2019

EVIL Gibson
Mar 23, 2001

Internet of Things is just someone else's computer that people can't help attaching cameras and door locks to!


Switchblade Switcharoo

Got a little spicy Sunday. It just finished reslivering at 2am. Didn't want to do the other one because I was afraid it would put more stress on the drives.

It turns out that the old drives using a USB dock make it show up different enough that ZFS can't recognize it. It was 113MB/s the whole way. Replacing the last drive now and it's up to 300MBps write now.


edit: this is the reason you make backups (which i did before)

EVIL Gibson fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Oct 8, 2019

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


D. Ebdrup posted:

Can you reproduce it? Because that sounds like something that should be reported on the ZoL github!

I guess the bad news is that I can still reproduce it, and the good news is I can still reproduce it?

I will continue trying to whittle it down to a minimum reproducible test case that doesn't involve me uploading 2 TB of personal data.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



Paul MaudDib posted:

I guess the bad news is that I can still reproduce it, and the good news is I can still reproduce it?

I will continue trying to whittle it down to a minimum reproducible test case that doesn't involve me uploading 2 TB of personal data.
Wait, does only happen with your data?

Also, in case anyone feels like they don't have enough storage, how about a E-ATX motherboard that can take up to 28 cores, 3TB persistent memory (provided you have an OS that can make use of that, which none of them presently do), and 7 HBAs plus 8 additional drives via the PCH? Here.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Also a built in 10G port! For $500, that's actually kinda tempting...

Johnny Aztec
Jan 30, 2005

Set Phasers to FUN!

A local donation-type thrift shop has a sealed Seagate Blackarmor 220 NAS for 50 bucks. At the time, I looked at it, and considered it, but didn't want tospend the money. Later, I googled it tosee what they cost new, and wtf over 800 bucks on Amazon? I check ebay, and a unit that has no drives sold for 50?


I am terribly confused. I would like to pick up some more storage. Anyone have experience with the Seagate Blackarmor series or should I give it a hard pass?

EVIL Gibson
Mar 23, 2001

Internet of Things is just someone else's computer that people can't help attaching cameras and door locks to!


Switchblade Switcharoo

Johnny Aztec posted:

A local donation-type thrift shop has a sealed Seagate Blackarmor 220 NAS for 50 bucks. At the time, I looked at it, and considered it, but didn't want tospend the money. Later, I googled it tosee what they cost new, and wtf over 800 bucks on Amazon? I check ebay, and a unit that has no drives sold for 50?


I am terribly confused. I would like to pick up some more storage. Anyone have experience with the Seagate Blackarmor series or should I give it a hard pass?

The price on Amazon is marked up because the third-party can mark it up. It's the same with any piece of electronic that is no longer made but some company that refuses to upgrade might need it at any price.

edit: I also would not get it because of this review starting out with

quote:

Other than the support for 3TB internal hard drives, making its total support amount of storage up to 12TB (up from 8TB), the BlackArmor 440 NAS sever is exactly the same as what it was a year ago.

It was made in 2009 so it probably doesn't recognize anything bigger than 4TB.

EVIL Gibson fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Oct 9, 2019

TWBalls
Apr 16, 2003
My medication never lies

Johnny Aztec posted:

I am terribly confused. I would like to pick up some more storage. Anyone have experience with the Seagate Blackarmor series or should I give it a hard pass?

I had a few of the single drive units and they were crap (I think they were Black Armor 110? Single 3TB 7200 RPM drive). Even though it had GbE, it topped out at about 22MB/s (that was if you were lucky, more often it was around 12ish MB/s). Eventually got fed up with poor speeds and shucked 'em. Now they perform like a 7200 RPM drive should.

Johnny Aztec
Jan 30, 2005

Set Phasers to FUN!

EVIL Gibson posted:

The price on Amazon is marked up because the third-party can mark it up. It's the same with any piece of electronic that is no longer made but some company that refuses to upgrade might need it at any price.

edit: I also would not get it because of this review starting out with


It was made in 2009 so it probably doesn't recognize anything bigger than 4TB.

Ah. I suppose I should have looked at it a bit closer. The fact that it was only for sale on Amazon should have flown a few red flags.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



Also, apparently I lied. FreeBSD -CURRENT does include support for nvdimm to be used as a GEOM device, so you can in fact install FreeBSD on Optane memory. I wager it'd boot pretty fast, too.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


D. Ebdrup posted:

Also, apparently I lied. FreeBSD -CURRENT does include support for nvdimm to be used as a GEOM device, so you can in fact install FreeBSD on Optane memory. I wager it'd boot pretty fast, too.

I was going to say, Intel ships a Linux and Windows tool to get Optane support. If your workload fits inside the memory it is indeed screaming fast.

fletcher
Jun 27, 2003

ken park is my favorite movie

Cybernetic Crumb

My 6x6TB WD Reds are nearing 4 years old and was looking at getting a new set of 10TB or 12TB drives. They are in an N40L running NAS4Free. The only thing I use it for is hosting the ZFS array - no streaming/transcoding/etc. NFS shares to a Kodi HTPC and Samba shares to my Windows desktop, nothing fancy.

I'm wondering if I should finally replace the N40L as well since it's going on 7 or 8 years old.

Haven't really found a chassis that I like if I go the custom route. The Fractal Design Node 302 seemed the most appealing so far. Or just get a Synology instead and not have to tinker with it. Also undecided as to what OS I would run on it. Continue with appliance OS like NAS4Free/XigmaNAS? Switch to FreeNAS? Xpenology? Just run FreeBSD instead?

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012



Fallen Rib

My friend has a 1 bay synology unit in his bedroom, with HDD hibernation on so it doesn’t make noise while he’s trying to sleep. Something keeps waking it up randomly in the middle of the night though, even when his computer and any other devices that could trigger it aren’t being used.

eames
May 9, 2009



KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:

My friend has a 1 bay synology unit in his bedroom, with HDD hibernation on so it doesn’t make noise while he’s trying to sleep. Something keeps waking it up randomly in the middle of the night though, even when his computer and any other devices that could trigger it aren’t being used.

Time to check the logs? Sounds like a daily maintenance cronjob, either from the OS or a third party package.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



fletcher posted:

My 6x6TB WD Reds are nearing 4 years old and was looking at getting a new set of 10TB or 12TB drives. They are in an N40L running NAS4Free. The only thing I use it for is hosting the ZFS array - no streaming/transcoding/etc. NFS shares to a Kodi HTPC and Samba shares to my Windows desktop, nothing fancy.

I'm wondering if I should finally replace the N40L as well since it's going on 7 or 8 years old.

Haven't really found a chassis that I like if I go the custom route. The Fractal Design Node 302 seemed the most appealing so far. Or just get a Synology instead and not have to tinker with it. Also undecided as to what OS I would run on it. Continue with appliance OS like NAS4Free/XigmaNAS? Switch to FreeNAS? Xpenology? Just run FreeBSD instead?
6-8 bay chassis with backplanes for disks (preferably with capasitors, to permit hotswapping without putting overdue load on the motherboard circuitry) and that are designed to fit around a Mini-ITX/Micro-ATX build and be as small as possible while having okay-ish airflow.. well, they basically don't fit. Some, like Silverstone DS380, can be retrofitted with cardboard or plastic shrouds to guide airflow over the disks, but they're still far from perfect.
Supposedly the Silverstone CS381 is in production, and even has a product page now, but I've yet to see it sold anywhere.

I would recommend going with just plain FreeBSD, because FreeNAS is going to be enabling opt-out anonymous usage statistics - and the reason I say that is because the opt-out part has me worried they're going to be focusing more on upselling than building a good product.

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




D. Ebdrup posted:

and the reason I say that is because the opt-out part has me worried they're going to be focusing more on upselling than building a good product.
hmm, thanks for the heads up, I guess I won't be upgrading.

lurksion
Mar 21, 2013


D. Ebdrup posted:

Supposedly the Silverstone CS381 is in production, and even has a product page now, but I've yet to see it sold anywhere.
I want that case, though it is difficult to justify a $350 outlay to replace my Node 304 from 2015

I see it (at least a model variant?) for sale at Newegg
https://www.newegg.com/black-silver...N82E16811163416
and Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-.../dp/B07W8KC3PY/

lurksion fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Oct 12, 2019

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



Ah, I didn't check American sites since ordering from the US is not only a hazzle (previously has had to deal with a 25% VAT on anything from outside the EU), but with the current tradewar I'm sure it'll be ~one million~ dollars.
That's definitely a bit steep, though.

fletcher
Jun 27, 2003

ken park is my favorite movie

Cybernetic Crumb

lurksion posted:

I want that case, though it is difficult to justify a $350 outlay to replace my Node 304 from 2015

I see it (at least a model variant?) for sale at Newegg
https://www.newegg.com/black-silver...N82E16811163416
and Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-.../dp/B07W8KC3PY/

That Silverstone CS381 does look pretty nice

How about something like this build?

lurksion
Mar 21, 2013


That case only takes an SFX PSU, so that's an obvious needed change.

fletcher
Jun 27, 2003

ken park is my favorite movie

Cybernetic Crumb

lurksion posted:

That case only takes an SFX PSU, so that's an obvious needed change.

Good call! Thanks for pointing that out. Looks like Seasonic has an equivalent SFX model. Should I stay with the 650W or would 450W be enough for 8 hard drives?

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



For ~80 bux more you can get a one of these motherboards and forego the HBA, so you can instead add a graphics card in case you wanna make a HTPC while you're making a server as FreeBSD 12.1 will be able to run kodi using Wayland.

fletcher
Jun 27, 2003

ken park is my favorite movie

Cybernetic Crumb

D. Ebdrup posted:

For ~80 bux more you can get a one of these motherboards and forego the HBA, so you can instead add a graphics card in case you wanna make a HTPC while you're making a server as FreeBSD 12.1 will be able to run kodi using Wayland.

I've got a separate Intel NUC I use for my HTPC. That motherboard and the integrated Intel Atom does look really nice though, I think I'd prefer that over the Asus & Celeron I had in my screenshot.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



fletcher posted:

I've got a separate Intel NUC I use for my HTPC. That motherboard and the integrated Intel Atom does look really nice though, I think I'd prefer that over the Asus & Celeron I had in my screenshot.
I gave bad advice, because I didn't remember that the very low-end Denverton chips only support 4 disks - but this one (has a fan) and this one (doesn't have a fan) are basically the same idea but both supports the 2 Mini-SAS HD adapters that the Silverstone case take.
It is quite a bit more expensive, though.
You do get the advantage of not having to use your namesake checksum, but can install the QuickAssist driver from Intel and switch to SHA2 based checksums.

fletcher
Jun 27, 2003

ken park is my favorite movie

Cybernetic Crumb

Oh dang that seems like a sweet NAS motherboard. $550 though! Very tempted to get that one. I see those two Mini-SAS connectors on there you mentioned. I assume for NAS only duty the fanless would be fine, since the Silverstone seems like it has decent airflow.

Since I'm going from 5 drives to 8 drives, I wonder if I even need the 10TB or 12TB drives. I've got 18TB usable at 70% utilization. Based on my rate of growth I think maybe 8x8TB would be plenty, more than doubles me to 48TB usable. I think that would get me through the next 4 years until I replace the drives again.

quote:

You do get the advantage of not having to use your namesake checksum, but can install the QuickAssist driver from Intel and switch to SHA2 based checksums.

I don't think I quite understood this part - can you elaborate?

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



fletcher posted:

I don't think I quite understood this part - can you elaborate?
Sure, it's on me for making a pun. I can't help it, I'm a paronomasiac.

ZFS, as you probably know, does per-record checksumming and stores the checksum in the previous record (effectively making a tree of retrivable and checkable checksums all the way back to the uberblock and its 9 copies).
It used to be only fletcher2 because that was fast on Suns SPARC64 CPUs, and fletcher4 was added later because it was only marginally slower on the faster newer SPARC64 processors.
OpenZFS has since added SHA512 and Skein; SHA512 because it's a cryptographically secure (for now) checksum that's very easy to do in hardware and therefore accelerate, and SKEIN other because it's very fast even when it can't be accelerated (which in theory it can, but there's nobody working on it), while still being (at present) cryptographically secure.
Somewhere on this list, Intel have hid the FreeBSD driver which can be built into FreeBSD (though I have yet to try it myself) - but even if you don't choose SHA512, the ~2GHz CPU is still fast enough that the fletcher checksumming ought to outpace any rotating rust, so the only advantage you get is saving CPU cycles that can be used for something else.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005



I had a thought before that I may have been unintentionally robbing myself of a lot of performance.

I have a NAS with 3 zvols:
boot of 2 mirrored SSDs plugged into motherboards SATA ports.
6 4TB reds in Z1 plugged into motherboard SAS ports (Onboard LSI controller IT Flashed)
10 6TB reds in Z1, 8 plugged into a different LSI controller IT Flashed with ESATA, 2 plugged into the SAS LSI onboard.

I'm thinking I should instead move the drives around so that the 6 4TBs are 2 SATA, 2 SAS, 2 ESata and the 10 Reds are 3 SATA, 3 SAS, 4 ESATA, and then the 2 SSDs are split over SATA/SAS. Right? I've been a moron and there should be a noticeable boost from doing this? Any reason not to?

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



LSI HBAs connected via a PCI-ex 2.0 or newer interface shouldn't have trouble with bandwidth, but never rule out ASmedia and Marvell controllers being absolute shite. Rotating rust gets nowhere near even SATA2 speeds, so I can't even ASmedia and Marvell being that shite - if it was applicable, but it's not.
Generally, good controllers shouldn't be nottlenecked by all devices going at the maximum bandwidth their interconnects offer.
I do think you might get something out of doing both SSDs over SAS if you can boot from the LSI HBA that's on the motherboard, though.

D. Ebdrup fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Oct 14, 2019

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