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Xenomorph
Jun 13, 2001


Thanks, WD. One of my 4TB Red drives had a few bad sectors. RMA'd it, and they sent me a refurb black-label Red with a shit ton more bad sectors on it.

The package wasn't damaged. The drive spun right up and isn't making any weird sounds. It doesn't seem like any physical damage, just a random parts of the magnetic surface is bad. Do they not test these things before they send them out? Now I have to RMA the RMA drive.

I have a mess of Toshiba and HGST "consumer" drives used in RAID setups (hardware and software), and it's only been my "NAS approved" WD Red drives that keep giving me trouble.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell



On the other side of Anecdote Street I've got something like 22 Reds running for I guess a few years and none of them have any problems.

lampey
Mar 27, 2012



spog posted:

I'm trying to get my head around Glacier.

I have 300GB of photos on my Synology and want to put them in Glacier in case of fire.

If I understand this right, I can setup the Synology App and it will upload them in the background to EU (Ireland)

Costs are Storage: $0.011 per GB = $3.30 / month

If I need to recover all 300GB, then I pay a retrieval fee of $0.011 per GB = $3.30
plus a data transfer fee of $0.090 per GB = $27.00

All plus taxes.

Is that right, or am I missing something here?

http://aws.amazon.com/glacier/faqs/...trieve_for_free
It is actually pretty expensive to retrieve and depends what your peak retrieval rate is. It would cost ~$500 to retrieve 300gb in 4 hours or ~$80 to retrieve it in 48 hours.
I would make sure you use a 3rd party tool to limit your peak retrieval rate in the event you need to restore any data.

poverty goat
Feb 15, 2004




A while back I'd spent all my money on new NAS drives to replace an old raidz of shitty consumer drives that was starting to drop but I didn't have enough SATA ports so I bought the cheapest SATA III controller that amazon would ship to me in 2 days for free along with the disks. Naturally, it's started hanging freeNAS with ahci timeouts now, and needs to be replaced. What are good options on the cheap end of things?

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

The Goatfather posted:

A while back I'd spent all my money on new NAS drives to replace an old raidz of shitty consumer drives that was starting to drop but I didn't have enough SATA ports so I bought the cheapest SATA III controller that amazon would ship to me in 2 days for free along with the disks. Naturally, it's started hanging freeNAS with ahci timeouts now, and needs to be replaced. What are good options on the cheap end of things?

M1015 off eBay flashed to IT mode.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


DrDork posted:

M1015 off eBay flashed to IT mode.

This. Or an M1115. The M1015 is more popular though.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

I got a Dell H200 for like $60 after my M1015 somehow got fried after the IBM firmware permanently overwrote part of my BIOS. The H200 has the same chipset as the M1015. Same general flash techniques apply. It's doing VT-d with my VMs just fine. I can't boot from these but that's what onboard SATA is for.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


necrobobsledder posted:

I got a Dell H200 for like $60 after my M1015 somehow got fried after the IBM firmware permanently overwrote part of my BIOS. The H200 has the same chipset as the M1015. Same general flash techniques apply. It's doing VT-d with my VMs just fine. I can't boot from these but that's what onboard SATA is for.

Thirding the M1015, it is a great card.

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005



Tortured By Flan

newegg has 3 packs of 3tb reds for $299, about as cheap as they get lately. I picked up a set and that'll put me at 7 of the 3tb reds. Think I'll pick up one more and rearrange to an 8 drive z2.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

I'd be a little bit wary of getting a bunch of 3TB drives given they're one of the less reliable drive capacities so far documented by Backblaze.

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/3tb-hard-drive-failure/

(Edit: not just seagate drives)

necrobobsledder fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jun 28, 2015

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell



necrobobsledder posted:

I'd be a little bit wary of getting a bunch of 3TB drives given they're one of the less reliable drive capacities so far documented by Backblaze.

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/3tb-hard-drive-failure/

(Edit: not just seagate drives)

Your link does not seem to support either your assertion about 3TB drives being less reliable or your assertion about it being not just seagate drives.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Thermopyle posted:

Your link does not seem to support either your assertion about 3TB drives being less reliable or your assertion about it being not just seagate drives.

I've seen a few of Backblaze's failure charts where the 3TB drives seemed to always be the least reliable across manufacturers. I can't find the ones I'm thinking of just now in a quick search but I'm sure they're on the blog somewhere. They definitely gave me a semi-irrational fear of 3TB drives with those charts.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

This is probably more related to the tsunami that hit East Asia and wiped out HD part suppliers, which is also when 3tb started coming out. Pretty much all drives made for awhile after the tsunami were crap, as everyone had to scramble to find part, and substituted substandard ones just to get things out the door. The DM001s are the poster child for this, but other models were affected as well.

Telex
Feb 11, 2003



DNova posted:

I've seen a few of Backblaze's failure charts where the 3TB drives seemed to always be the least reliable across manufacturers. I can't find the ones I'm thinking of just now in a quick search but I'm sure they're on the blog somewhere. They definitely gave me a semi-irrational fear of 3TB drives with those charts.

I think that could be more accurately stated as "drives made in 2012 have a higher rate of failure, likely due to pressure to ramp back up production and/or facility damage that wasn't quite properly fixed up after the regional disaster affecting hard drive production facilities" but hey, whatever your narrative needs to be.

I don't think anyone was buying 4TB drives in 2012. I don't think anyone's buying 3TB drives today if they're doing it in large quantities for mass storage arrays with which to aggregate a lot of data on failure rates. Maybe in a year or two backblaze can share their data on how their 2013 and 2014 3TB drives fared in their arrays I suppose, but that would be a much better data point if you want to compare 3TB drives to others when currently it seems to say that 2012 was just a pretty shit year for drives, and the Seagate facility for whatever reason suffered far more in terms of quality than Western Digital.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




Tortured By Flan

Hey!

So, a friend and I manage a home 20TB Freenas + application server. My boss is asking if we know of any good out-of-the-box home cloud NASses. We said no, but that we'd check with you guys.

What are the top brands in the (cringe) "home cloud" space right now? The only needs are:

(1) Bring your own disks (he already has 2x2TB 3.5" Seagate HDDs)
(2) Access data over the air (he is replacing a Buffalo home cloud device that reaches out to the Buffalo website as the frontend of data when out of his home network)
(3) Raid 1 capability

Telex
Feb 11, 2003



https://owncloud.org/

install it on whatever you want. Learn to configure your networking to make it work. It's pretty easy IMO.

eightysixed
Sep 23, 2004

I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.


Seconding OwnCloud, and its simplicity.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




Tortured By Flan

Owncloud looks cool. How 'bout hardware?

Telex
Feb 11, 2003



roll your own, or pretty sure it runs on any of the main BYOD nas enclosures like qnap, synology or drobo.

http://www.amazon.com/Synology-Amer...35599809&sr=1-4


someone can correct me if I'm wrong but something like that would work just fine for what he wants.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

Thermopyle posted:

Your link does not seem to support either your assertion about 3TB drives being less reliable or your assertion about it being not just seagate drives.
Ugh, got links mixed all up there. Latest chart is here https://www.backblaze.com/blog/best-hard-drive/ including Western Digital, HGST, and Toshiba drives. 3TB is worst for all of them across the board.

There's all sorts of reasons why 3TB might be worse including the obvious fact that 3TB drives have been out longer than 4TB and 6TB, but if you compare the 2TB drives to the 3TB ones it makes it worse for sure. I've skipped 3TB drives entirely partly because of the questionable reliability of drives around the Thailand flooding dark ages of hard drives.

Telex
Feb 11, 2003



Okay, it makes me sad how a drive marketed as good for a raid in the WD Reds, happens to have a higher failure rate than drives that are not marketed as RAID drives.

that's some pretty shitty stuff there. Might as well start swapping the 2TB I have for 4TB drives and maybe knock down to 6x4TB total with 2 redundant drives instead of what I've got going on.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Telex posted:

Okay, it makes me sad how a drive marketed as good for a raid in the WD Reds, happens to have a higher failure rate than drives that are not marketed as RAID drives.

that's some pretty shitty stuff there. Might as well start swapping the 2TB I have for 4TB drives and maybe knock down to 6x4TB total with 2 redundant drives instead of what I've got going on.

The only real difference between Reds and Greens are some firmware settings. Everything else is basically the same. If you want really good drives, go with HGST

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Skandranon posted:

The only real difference between Reds and Greens are some firmware settings. Everything else is basically the same. If you want really good drives, go with HGST

The Reds are also supposed to have a better vibration suppression system to handle multiple drives in close proximity (anyone's guess if it actually works or not), and a 3yr warranty vs the Green's 2yr.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

I'm not convinced the vibration sensor is anything special, and I think the warranty difference is just marketing, not a reflection of improved build quality.

That being said, I have 5 of the 4tb Reds, so it's not like I think they are crap or want them to die.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

I am a crazy person and am mixing Toshiba and WD 4 TB drives, albeit they're all JBOD while I shuffle some data around and test them individually. I think I'll build a 8x4TB RAIDZ2 with these and see what happens.

TheParadigm
Dec 10, 2009



Does someone have a moment to point me in the right direction regarding disk imaging? Whomever recommended macrium reflect gets a shoutout, but its hit some snags.

I run an SSD + 2tb storage hard drive, the latter of which is starting to fail. I intend to upgrade to a 4TB hgst and have a 3TB WD red for the new backup drive.

Both new driveswere initialized with GPT, (i have win7 an MSI z68a-gd56 that should support UEFI+ GPT to go above 2tb)

A straight clone attempt failed, so I took backed up an image to the WD and restored it onto HGST.

This appears to have done wierd things with partition sizes, the unused space on the previous disc became a second partition, the 100MB system reserved(from the GPT initiatlizat) disappeared, and the List Disc command only shows the WD red as GPT enabled now. Nor can I increase the size of the partition (either in aomei partition assistant nor disk management).

I can try again pretty easily, it appears to be a clean image. I'm assuming I'm going to have to clear off the HGST and reinitialize it as GPT.

My question is: How do I copy the files 2TB onto the 4tb without losing GPT again, using that image?

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

For anyone who wants a decently sized NAS but doesn't want to put forth basically any effort, TigerDirect right now has the 8TB WD My Cloud for $460, which isn't much more than the cost of the included 4x2TB drives. Performance obviously won't match a roll-your-own server, but it'll do Plex and normal home serving just fine.

greazeball
Feb 4, 2003




Oven Wrangler

Is there an updated guide for beginners? I've got a spare PC but I'll need to buy hard drives anyway and I'm wondering if the WD My Cloud might just be a cheap and easy solution for my first NAS thing.

kiwid
Sep 30, 2013



What is the different between putting 3 individual drives into a ZFS pool vs putting 3 striped drives as one vdev into a pool assuming there are no current vdevs in the pool?

Edit: for a visual:

code:
tank
    stripe
        ada0p2
    stripe
        ada1p2
    stripe
        ada2p2
vs

code:
tank
    stripe
        ada0p2
        ada1p2
        ada2p2

kiwid fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Jul 7, 2015

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



EDIT: Whoops, I misunderstood. You can do it, but there's no difference - and more importantly, there's no point in doing it unless you hate your data as you'd be halving your MTBF for every disk added to the stripe (so say you start out with 1m, you end up with 250k by doing 3-disk striping and with 4-disk striping you get basically a magnitude in difference).

Original mistaken answer here:
You can't stripe data across one disk for each vdev in your pool like you're describing in the first example.
You would need at least 6 disks to accomplish it striping on each vdev with three vdevs:
code:
tank
    stripe
        ada0p2
        ada1p2
    stripe
        ada2p2
        ada3p2
    stripe
        ada4p2
        ada5p2
The benefit of doing this would be a much faster I/O, especially for sitautions where multiple datastreams are accessing different data.
The downside, of course, if you lose two specific disks (0+1,2+3,4+5), you have data loss.
With 4 disks and raidz2 you can lose any two disks in your pool that will look like this:
code:
tank
    raidz2
        ada0p2
        ada1p2
        ada2p2
        ada3p2

D. Ebdrup fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jul 7, 2015

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


I tried Glacier with my photo folders and, as I sort of expected, it failed before the end of the backup - probably due to my slow/unreliable network.

So, what I have been doing is to edit the original backup task to a single folder, running it at night, editing the task to include another additional folder, rinse and repeat.

I think I can get all 100GB up there in a couple of weeks.

I am not doing anything stupid here? Glacier is a bit weird and I am concerned that I am missing something that will make it all unrecoverable/cost a million dollars.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

spog posted:

I tried Glacier with my photo folders and, as I sort of expected, it failed before the end of the backup - probably due to my slow/unreliable network.

So, what I have been doing is to edit the original backup task to a single folder, running it at night, editing the task to include another additional folder, rinse and repeat.

I think I can get all 100GB up there in a couple of weeks.

I am not doing anything stupid here? Glacier is a bit weird and I am concerned that I am missing something that will make it all unrecoverable/cost a million dollars.

Weeks?! Took me only a few days to upload 100gb to Crashplan with a 3mpbs uplink. Why are you going with Glacier?

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


Skandranon posted:

Weeks?! Took me only a few days to upload 100gb to Crashplan with a 3mpbs uplink. Why are you going with Glacier?

Well, I've added one folder at a time, but I could probably double that and do it in a few days - there's no hurry.

Glacier is what I want/need: a dirt cheap storage system that will never be accessed and only updated monthly.

I have plenty of onsite back-up - this is just in case my house burns to the ground.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

spog posted:

Well, I've added one folder at a time, but I could probably double that and do it in a few days - there's no hurry.

Glacier is what I want/need: a dirt cheap storage system that will never be accessed and only updated monthly.

I have plenty of onsite back-up - this is just in case my house burns to the ground.

Crashplan is $5/month for unlimited backup, and doesn't cost money to restore.

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


spog posted:

With UK prices and VAT, it works out at £87 for Crashplan and £30 for Glacier per year

I get what you are saying, but an extra $90 isn't worth it for me, if I just use this as an emergency back-up only since I prefer to keep things local.

I apprecaite the advice though.

Welcome to the UK, please bend over.

ufarn
May 30, 2009


Anyone know if I can just pull out the RAID-1 HDDs in my WD World II and pop them into a Synology?

I can’t even access the POS without plugging a Windows computer into the same router the NAS is connected to by Ethernet, so I don’t know if there are any weird access settings that would prevent me from doing something like that. I never managed to get it to work on OS X either, so I’d love to get around all that BS.

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


Skandranon posted:

Weeks?! Took me only a few days to upload 100gb to Crashplan with a 3mpbs uplink. Why are you going with Glacier?

Not impressed with the Synology Glacier app.

If the backup fails, then the next time it runs, it tried to perform a complete backup - not just the outstanding files.

I set it to nightly backups and I think that it runs out of time to complete one run before it tries to start another. I'm going to have to fart around with running them manually and splitting them into chunks.

Chrashplan seems more tempting.

Spaceguns
Aug 28, 2007


Trying to wrap my head around NAS requirements and options. Here is what I am trying to do.

Right now I have Google Drive to backup critical things across several home PCs and a travel work laptop (with a "working files" folder within google drive Synced to it). This works out pretty well for our critical files but what I have ended up with is several home systems (PC and Mac mix) all with the google drive client installed all synced with the files. It works well enough allowing myself and my wife to both access and back up critical files between our systems, but it is quite a bit redundant since the same files are now existing across multiple systems and I have to juggle files is the "Synced Folder" since the Mac doesn't have the capacity to handle all the space on Google Drive.

What I would ideally like would be a system that is easy to manage and does the following.
-Capacity for up to 4 TB, only 1 TB of which would be designated for Google Drive backups (I want the offsite backup and need to access these files on the road and shared folders with other users at times).
-Versatility to switch to other cloud services in the future to replace Google Drive, or to run alongside it on a different folder on the same NAS (Dropbox used with some clients).
-Install plex/netflix/other services and just use it to play things on my TV instead of my current long ass HDMI cable from my desktop solution. Maybe a Roku is more appropriate for this.
-East to mount as a network drive on multiple platforms. Windows is usually pretty straight forward but I have experienced issues keeping network drives mounted on the Mac. I want my wife to be able to configure once and then just easily access the NAS as if it was an additional drive on her Mac.
-Some type of access from smartphones/tablets for whatever fun stuff there is to do is a plus but not necessary. Honestly don't know what I would use it for other than controlling plex or something.

I am leaning towards QNAP but I want goon opinions on this instead of defaulting to "most popular/most well marketed". As far as budget, I am in no huge hurry and can wait until sales to pick up components. Not going for budget deal but not going for enterprise super pro gold plated solution.

A small, quite box sitting near the TV with minimal fuss after initial setup that easily mounts as a network drive on multiple systems and handles my media. A goon can dream.

Mortanis
Dec 28, 2005

It's your father's lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight.

College Slice

Is there any way to get a Synology (something like a 1515+) to back up offsite to Crashplan easily? I really don't want to use Amazon Glacier - I'd like something with granular restore control and already have a Crashplan account.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Mortanis posted:

Is there any way to get a Synology (something like a 1515+) to back up offsite to Crashplan easily? I really don't want to use Amazon Glacier - I'd like something with granular restore control and already have a Crashplan account.

Yes, install crashplan

http://forum.synology.com/wiki/inde...Headless_Client

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