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Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


Unraid arrays explained, redeyes

https://youtu.be/HybwCOVDg9k

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Thank you sir. I am not a huge fan of XFS because I can never find drivers.. but as you said, you don't need to worry about it. BTRFS would be nice. Checking out the vid though.

Photex
Apr 6, 2009





I've been using unraid for a little over a year, it just works is the easiest way to sell it to people. There is a ton you can do with it though.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


Photex posted:

I've been using unraid for a little over a year, it just works is the easiest way to sell it to people. There is a ton you can do with it though.

Also no drama.

EVIL Gibson
Mar 23, 2001

Internet of Things is just someone else's computer that people can't help attaching cameras and door locks to!


Switchblade Switcharoo

Photex posted:

I've been using unraid for a little over a year, it just works is the easiest way to sell it to people. There is a ton you can do with it though.

Now what happens you explain to them they also need a proper backup system?

"Don't I already have that now?"

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Photex posted:

I've been using unraid for a little over a year, it just works is the easiest way to sell it to people. There is a ton you can do with it though.

Im pretty sold. I refuse to use RAID 5'ish things. This seems like a great compromise between logical RAID like WHS/Stablebit Drivepool and RAID 5/6. For backups, nothing like a HD unplugged in a drawer somewhere else.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


There's a trial mode for 2 weeks so it can't hurt to try it out.

My advice is to preclear your drives ahead of time if you can.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Matt Zerella posted:

There's a trial mode for 2 weeks so it can't hurt to try it out.

My advice is to preclear your drives ahead of time if you can.

Ive actually got a Stablebit Drive Pool array right now. I'm going to have to clear off at least 2? drives to rebuild with Unraid. Is Preclear like a long format? That seems like a good thing.

calandryll
Apr 25, 2003

Ask me where I do my best drinking!



Pillbug

My brother in law asked me about a NAS for storage and running Plex. It's been awhile since I looked into self-contained stuff. I'm guessing a QNAP or Synology but not sure which ones to look at. Suggestions?

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


redeyes posted:

Ive actually got a Stablebit Drive Pool array right now. I'm going to have to clear off at least 2? drives to rebuild with Unraid. Is Preclear like a long format? That seems like a good thing.

You can run without a parity drive if you're just trying it out. And yes, preclear is a stress test format that unraid runs when you first put in a drive. I believe there is a fast mode too. It took about 24 hours to preclear a 6 tb red for me. Don't do this on SSDs.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



Speaking of implementations, isn't Stablebit Drivepool just SPAN/drive concatenation with optional per-folder mirror/stripe+parity?

Matt Zerella posted:

Also no drama.
It's opensource - give it time.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

redeyes posted:

Thank you sir. I am not a huge fan of XFS because I can never find drivers.. but as you said, you don't need to worry about it. BTRFS would be nice. Checking out the vid though.
If you want BTRFS, you might as well burn your data onto DVDs and then toss them into a shredder.

Also, what does XFS does have to do with drivers? It's a Linux kernel feature.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


Yeah I don't understand why unraid wants cache drive to be btrfs but so far so good so I don't care.

8-bit Miniboss
May 24, 2005

CORPO COPS CAME FOR MY


Matt Zerella posted:

Yeah I don't understand why unraid wants cache drive to be btrfs but so far so good so I don't care.

According to their blog post:

quote:


BTRFS
  • Supports copy on write, snap-shot, and compression
  • Allows mixing/matching different drives for use in an unRAID cache pool
  • Ideally suited for use in the cache pool

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


SuperMicro has listed their Denverton boards and they are :iamafag:

A2SDi-H-TP4F posted:

  • Intel® Atom® Processor C3958
  • mITX form-factor
  • Up to 256GB Registered ECC RDIMM, DDR4-2400MHz
  • Up to 64GB Unbuffered ECC/non-ECC UDIMM, DDR4-2400MHz, in 4 DIMM slots
  • 1 PCI-E 3.0 x4
  • M.2 Interface: PCI-E 3.0 x2 and SATA
  • SoC controller for 12 SATA3 (6 Gbps) ports;
  • 4 SATA3 ports, 2 MiniSAS HD ports
  • Quad LAN with Intel® C3000 SoC
  • 2 10GBaseT and 2 10Gb SFP+

Price: your firstborn child

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


Damn, I'd rather buy a Epyc board for that much money though.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom

College Slice

That board is like a "Works" pizza. One of everything.

Also fucking pointless.

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA


Don Dongington posted:

That board is like a "Works" pizza. One of everything.

Also fucking pointless.

Can that shitty little Atom even handle the raw throughput of those 4 network interfaces?

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017


Methylethylaldehyde posted:

Can that shitty little Atom even handle the raw throughput of those 4 network interfaces?

Those are atom just in branding, they have plenty of cores and compute power. You average synology x86 nas has the previous generation(avoton) low end chips and it doesn't skip a beat handling network traffic AND storage.

SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Dec 11, 2017

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Methylethylaldehyde posted:

Can that shitty little Atom even handle the raw throughput of those 4 network interfaces?

"shitty little atom"



(and that was a preproduction board with a 3955, the production version has a 3958 which is clocked 20% higher)

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Dec 11, 2017

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


Paul MaudDib posted:

"shitty little atom"



(and that was a preproduction board with a 3955, the production version has a 3958 which is clocked 20% higher)

To be fair, those are all shitty little CPUs. How do they compare with an i3, an i5 and an i7?

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017


Volguus posted:

To be fair, those are all shitty little CPUs. How do they compare with an i3, an i5 and an i7?

https://ark.intel.com/products/8335...-Cache-1_80-GHz

The second processor in that graph is two haswell i5 on the same die....

https://ark.intel.com/products/1235...-Cache-1_80-GHz

The first one is two skylake i3 on the same die...

If you want an exact reference point the xeon e3 1220 v6 is a kabylake i5

https://ark.intel.com/products/9747...-Cache-3_00-GHz

SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Dec 11, 2017

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Volguus posted:

To be fair, those are all shitty little CPUs. How do they compare with an i3, an i5 and an i7?

An E3-1220v6 is basically an i5 7400, and the Atom 3958 should be close to twice as fast as that in multi-threaded performance.

Granted, it spreads that power across 16 cores instead of 4, so single-threaded performance is about half of a 3 GHz Skylake.

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA


Paul MaudDib posted:

"shitty little atom"



(and that was a preproduction board with a 3955, the production version has a 3958 which is clocked 20% higher)

Wow, that's pretty good. Normally when I hear 'Atom' I think shitty bottom tier netbook, but they apparently go all the way up to big-boy Xeon levels these days.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017


Methylethylaldehyde posted:

Wow, that's pretty good. Normally when I hear 'Atom' I think shitty bottom tier netbook, but they apparently go all the way up to big-boy Xeon levels these days.

Intel has multiple lines of atom processors, they are a clusterfuck to identify if you don't know the cpu target. C-series are meant for network appliances(routers or nas) and they can offload the network load to the onboard network core so they won't break a sweat handling 10g ports.

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


Oh, so there aren't any benchmarks that compare that Atom to its bigger brothers? It's fine if Atom comes out as being 50% slower than X since given its TDP and/or price it may still be worth it.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017


Volguus posted:

Oh, so there aren't any benchmarks that compare that Atom to its bigger brothers? It's fine if Atom comes out as being 50% slower than X since given its TDP and/or price it may still be worth it.
code:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2718&cmp[]=2598
This is passmark so it's not very thorough but you'll see that the denverton cpu is equivalent or better than a i7-6700 consuming 45W or less compared to the i7 65W....

SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Dec 11, 2017

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts




Toilet Rascal

Man I've gotta post my experience with Unraid. It is absolutely amazing with its app store (unofficial), KVM support, and Docker support. I've been able to take my gaming PC and just make it a great server while using the video card pass-through to keep the machine relevant for the rest of my usage. It has basically been my entire home lab, NAS, and Gamestream system for around 6 months now. Basically the only thing it's missing is disk encryption, and that's been added to one of the new RC versions. Data fidelity isn't hugely important to me since I'm basically just using it for Plex, roms, etc. Anything important is on Dropbox.

Organizr


All of the above are setup with Docker, which auto-updates the images when the Docker repository does so. I had tried running all of the above software on Windows, and it sucked messing with NSSM and everything installing in the appdata folder, etc.

VMs:


As someone who used to dual boot and hated it, the virtualization support is awesome. The guide for doing a Hackintosh install on my laptop or to the bare metal of the server was more difficult than just creating a VM. High Sierra was still a bitch to get working, but now that it does it's nearly as good as a bare metal install since the graphics card again supports pass-through.

All-in-all I just wanted to chime in that anyone looking for a good NAS with downloading and seeding capability who already has a solid gaming machine should consider Unraid (or a similarly capable software). I really didn't want to spend a ton on a dedicated NAS with HEVC/multiple stream transcoding capability, so this really worked out. My biggest gripe is it can be difficult to fix a problem when one comes up, and that you can't easily clone a VM. Luckily there's a big community who probably already ran into X problem and their SEO on their forum is pretty good so finding an answer isn't too bad.

So just a heads up for anyone who was in a similar situation - trying not to spend a monthly subscription for downloader capability, or a (for me) fortune on a NAS with a decent CPU. My wife is now using a chromebook as a thin client for the High Sierra instance and she's not very into technical stuff - it's working great for her. If I were building from scratch I would likely go with a high core/threaded CPU like a Xeon however.

edit: aaand all of this was basically covered in the past page. Oh well.

Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Dec 11, 2017

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


I'd probably wait and go AMD. Once they fix the lockup issues.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Modest Mouse cover band posted:

So just a heads up for anyone who was in a similar situation - trying not to spend a monthly subscription for downloader capability, or a (for me) fortune on a NAS with a decent CPU. My wife is now using a chromebook as a thin client for the High Sierra instance and she's not very into technical stuff - it's working great for her. If I were building from scratch I would likely go with a high core/threaded CPU like a Xeon however.

I've been trying to work out the same kind of build.

The problem IMO is that E5s/HEDTs have a pretty high platform power consumption even at idle. My E5-1650 system (HP Z420) pulls 170w at the desktop and that's roughly what I get on my 5820K system too. Ryzen is actually the same way (and pulls roughly as much power as Haswell-E across the board). With my 16c/kWh electricity that translates into $20/mo just idling the machine, and even if you don't care about the cost that's an awful lot of heat to be dumping right into your drives.

E3/consumer systems have much better idle power consumption. Kaby and Skylake Pentiums and i3s actually support ECC so for now I am doing that, and if 2C4T ever becomes an issue I can swap to a 4C8T Xeon relatively cheaply, or just add a second application server in a separate mITX case (doesn't really need ECC, so it could just be an 8700 or whatever).

(if you think you're going to need that much horsepower, $900 for a high-end Denverton doesn't seem like a bad deal vs two separate systems, and it has really nice power consumption, but you will probably need to replace the passive cooler)

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Dec 11, 2017

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts




Toilet Rascal

Paul MaudDib posted:

I've been trying to work out the same kind of build.

The problem IMO is that E5s/HEDTs have a pretty high platform power consumption even at idle. My E5-1650 system (HP Z420) pulls 170w at the desktop and that's roughly what I get on my 5820K system too. Ryzen is actually the same way (and pulls roughly as much power as Haswell-E across the board). With my 16c/kWh electricity that translates into $20/mo just idling the machine, and even if you don't care about the cost that's an awful lot of heat to be dumping right into your drives.

E3/consumer systems have much better idle power consumption. Kaby and Skylake Pentiums and i3s actually support ECC so for now I am doing that, and if 2C4T ever becomes an issue I can swap to a 4C8T Xeon relatively cheaply, or just add a second application server in a separate mITX case (doesn't really need ECC, so it could just be an 8700 or whatever).

(if you think you're going to need that much horsepower, $900 for a high-end Denverton doesn't seem like a bad deal vs two separate systems, and it has really nice power consumption, but you will probably need to replace the passive cooler)

Yes I'm currently using a 4790k in there, and the power consumption is much less than a Xeon for sure. The biggest reason I would consider moving to a server cpu is because I share my plex instance with a few members of my extended family, and it seems like they have to transcode everything which eats up RAM and creates a high load on the CPU - enough that I can't get a VM to run if a single 4k stream is being transcoded. For this particular usage case it may make sense, or if I was using the VMs concurrently which just isn't necessary for me at the moment.

But yeah my CPU knowledge isn't that great; I only pay attention when I'm buying so I'm a couple generations behind on knowledge at the moment.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005



I have a Fractal Define R5 now with 6 Reds in it. I want to add 10 more to the NAS but I'm not sure in what fashion exactly.

Basically I have a with Xeon with 32 gigs memory that boots ESXI, passes-thru an LSI controller & 16 gigs to FreeNAS, then uses the other 16 to run a bunch of VMs. The reds are 4TB in ZFS/Z2. So 16 usable and it's almost full I got 10 8TBs that i'd add to again as /Z2 for another 64 usable.

I've had that for the past 3 years but now I see most of my workload is Docker containers. So I could grab a new case + mobo for the 16 Freenas drives and leave the define just for one docker machine. Or I could see about more storage in the define I think you can put a 2nd 5 drive caddy in there right? Or I could just give the NAS machine to my wife and move everything to something like a Dell R710 with 192gigs memory you can get on EBay fairly cheaply. EDIT Looks like I have the 9X0 and the 7X0 confused, the 710s are dirt cheap but can't handle 16 drives the 910s are big bucks but 4U.


Anyone have thoughts?

Hughlander fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Dec 12, 2017

Gozinbulx
Feb 19, 2004


Rsync/FreeNAS question:

So I've managed to somehow get Rsync to work over SSH from a Win10 client (PUSH) with the ubuntu subsystem thing and to my FreeNAS (pull).

But now I want to get it to work with SSH keys so I can let it run periodically without human input (entering a password).

Something very dumb that i fundamentally don't understand is: does the username on the client (push), ie the name i use on my win10 bash, have to be the same as the user account on FreeNAS that is the recipient of the Rsync SSH command? Cause when I generate the SSH key pair on my client machine, its generated under the name of my Win10 user

Like as it works now, with PW, i do

rsync -rht --progress /mnt/c/Documents/ freenastest@192.168.1.161:/mnt/zfs_1/testshare/

i am asked to enter the PW for freenastest, which is an account I created on FreeNAS.

but my account on Win10 is my name, not 'freenastest', so when I generate my SSH keys, there are not for 'freenastest'

I pasted the public key into 'freenastest's public ssh key box in the freenas web ui anyways, and predictably it did not work.

I feel like im doing a terrible job of explaining this. How do i force Rsync to try to authenticate using the private key stored on my Win10 machine, even though the username is different than the one i am using to SSH into the FreeNAS box?

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Gozinbulx posted:

Like as it works now, with PW, i do

rsync -rht --progress /mnt/c/Documents/ freenastest@192.168.1.161:/mnt/zfs_1/testshare/

i am asked to enter the PW for freenastest, which is an account I created on FreeNAS.

but my account on Win10 is my name, not 'freenastest', so when I generate my SSH keys, there are not for 'freenastest'

I pasted the public key into 'freenastest's public ssh key box in the freenas web ui anyways, and predictably it did not work.

That sounds like the right approach to me. The actual Unix answer would be that your pubkey needs to be a line in the file "~/.ssh/authorized_keys" for whatever user you're trying to log in as, then sshd will try and use key authentication.

Gozinbulx
Feb 19, 2004


Paul MaudDib posted:

That sounds like the right approach to me. The actual Unix answer would be that your pubkey needs to be a line in the file "~/.ssh/authorized_keys" for whatever user you're trying to log in as, then sshd will try and use key authentication.

Logging in as freenastest@server.com, from an bash account called myname@mywindowspc, will it check for the key in freenastest's home folder, or myname's home folder (which does not exist on freenass)?

edit: checked "~/.ssh/authorized keys" for freenastest and indeed my pub key is in there, but it ends in "mywinname@mywincomputer", does that actually effect its "lookup" of the key? i guess it just seems like when I try to SSH into freenass, its not even looking at authorized keys, it just automatically asks me for the password. IS there a command in SSH (and rsync) that tells it like "hey, this is my private key, see if you have the pubkey"?

Gozinbulx fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Dec 12, 2017

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

That ssh comment field is purely optional and is not part of the authentication process. You can tell your ssh client to use a specific private key to connect with. Also, if your permissions on the key on the client are too loose (needs to be something like 600 for your keys) you may see an error as you connect. Just turn on -vv options as you connect and you’ll learn more about what ssh does than you’ve wanted to know unless you’re literally a cryptologist. You may also want to peek into sshd / security logs on the server for clues.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Gozinbulx posted:

Logging in as freenastest@server.com, from an bash account called myname@mywindowspc, will it check for the key in freenastest's home folder, or myname's home folder (which does not exist on freenass)?

edit: checked "~/.ssh/authorized keys" for freenastest and indeed my pub key is in there, but it ends in "mywinname@mywincomputer", does that actually effect its "lookup" of the key? i guess it just seems like when I try to SSH into freenass, its not even looking at authorized keys, it just automatically asks me for the password. IS there a command in SSH (and rsync) that tells it like "hey, this is my private key, see if you have the pubkey"?

No, the bit at the end is essentially a comment field.

It sounds like your SSH client doesn't actually have your private key, or it isn't activated, or something.

Gozinbulx
Feb 19, 2004


So before I saw these last 2 replies, I went ahead and bit the dumb bullet and created an account on freenass with the same name as my win10 user and.... it worked. By the sounds of these last 2 replies, that is NOT necessary, so now I am more confused as to why that worked.

Sheep
Jul 24, 2003


I've got an old HP ProLiant N54L (which is awesome), but is sadly really bottlenecked by only having four (five) internal bays. I'd like to expand that using some external storage - I'm thinking the easiest way would be to get a USB 3 HD enclosure and a compatible HBA? I'm assuming USB 3 will have no trouble serving up a bunch of 5400RPM WD Reds.

Just want to make sure I'm not planning anything fundamentally retarded here.

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

Bless You Ants, Blants



Fun Shoe

If you're buying an enclosure anyway then can't you hook something up to the eSATA port that's already in the Microserver?

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