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G-Prime
Apr 30, 2003

Baby, when it's love,
if it's not rough it isn't fun.


Very clear on the bathtub curve thing, but the point I was making is that WD sells these cheaper at least partially because of the reduced warranty. There's also likely some amount of subsidy on the part of Best Buy treating it as a loss leader to get people into the store and buying $30 cables that are no better than a $4 one you can get from Amazon or Monoprice.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

Best Buy using them as a loss leader makes sense to me but I think they may have screwed up because folks into large hard drives probably know not to buy rip-off cables or small flash storage and other high mark-up items with bigger impulse buy factor. I’m glad they’re not pushing warranty and service plans as much as they used to.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


TenementFunster posted:

can confirm shucking WD Elements and EasyStore drives is the best deal going. got two WD80EMAZ (or w/e) white label "Red" drives for like ~$150. why the hell is WD selling the whole external setups for significantly less than the cost of just the bare retail drives? it's such a dumb giveaway for WD.

We've discussed this before, but part of the equation is likely that the same drives are re-sold bare at retail to the higher-margin/markup "pro/business/enterprise" sector, where they can get more money for the same products and those industries are used to paying higher prices for things anyway (also see: healthcare.)

Also, HDDs have a minimum cost to manufacture but adding platters within a given series adds a relatively small increase in cost, so the price difference between capacities is likely well beyond the manufacturer's costs; thus I'd assume that the external drives are still profitable at retail while the bare ones have a huge markup.

redeyes posted:

The HGST drives look discontinuted now. NOOOOOOOOooo

But HGST is owned by WD, so whichever dries you're talking about may just be branded differently.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Atomizer posted:

We've discussed this before, but part of the equation is likely that the same drives are re-sold bare at retail to the higher-margin/markup "pro/business/enterprise" sector, where they can get more money for the same products and those industries are used to paying higher prices for things anyway (also see: healthcare.)

Also, HDDs have a minimum cost to manufacture but adding platters within a given series adds a relatively small increase in cost, so the price difference between capacities is likely well beyond the manufacturer's costs; thus I'd assume that the external drives are still profitable at retail while the bare ones have a huge markup.


But HGST is owned by WD, so whichever dries you're talking about may just be branded differently.

Oh I mean the HGST NAS drives. No idea what they would be rebranded into. They are 7200RPM ones, from like 4,6,8, and 10TB capacities

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


TenementFunster posted:

can confirm shucking WD Elements and EasyStore drives is the best deal going. got two WD80EMAZ (or w/e) white label "Red" drives

Like this for $140? https://smile.amazon.com/Elements-D.../dp/B07D5V2ZXD/

Might be worth a gamble. I can buy literally two of them for the price of one warrantied disk.

Edit: 10TB easystore @ bestbuy for $200 right now.

H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Feb 9, 2019

Heners_UK
Jun 1, 2002


That TS430 turned up 6 days early, and now I'm tempted to gather up every hard drive in the house.

I'm actually genuinely wondering if it's worth the electricity to power the <=300gb drives. Heck I'm pondering if the two 500gb drives are worth it. It's not like they are useful just sitting there.

And of course, my cheap side is waiting for those WD Elements 8TB drives to drop below CAD$200... Oh shit waiting means the server isn't doing me any good, per the problem above.

In conclusion: I'll spend the weekend weeping on the floor in a pit of indecision.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


Heners_UK posted:

That TS430 turned up 6 days early, and now I'm tempted to gather up every hard drive in the house.

I'm actually genuinely wondering if it's worth the electricity to power the <=300gb drives. Heck I'm pondering if the two 500gb drives are worth it. It's not like they are useful just sitting there.

And of course, my cheap side is waiting for those WD Elements 8TB drives to drop below CAD$200... Oh shit waiting means the server isn't doing me any good, per the problem above.

In conclusion: I'll spend the weekend weeping on the floor in a pit of indecision.

Throw away your <1tb disks.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


Heners_UK posted:

That TS430 turned up 6 days early, and now I'm tempted to gather up every hard drive in the house.

I'm actually genuinely wondering if it's worth the electricity to power the <=300gb drives. Heck I'm pondering if the two 500gb drives are worth it. It's not like they are useful just sitting there.

And of course, my cheap side is waiting for those WD Elements 8TB drives to drop below CAD$200... Oh shit waiting means the server isn't doing me any good, per the problem above.

In conclusion: I'll spend the weekend weeping on the floor in a pit of indecision.

I put 3 old 250 GB HDDs in RAID0 (this may actually be via Windows Storage Spaces but it doesn't even matter) in a Shuttle XPC that I got as a backup desktop (largely because I've wanted an XPC for probably almost 2 decades and this old refurb was cheap.) The array hits ~200 MB/s sequential r/w and 750 GB is enough space for plenty of games that run on such a system (3770, 16 GB DDR3, and a mini 1050 Ti.) If a drive dies it doesn't matter, they're just game files that I have elsewhere and I can put replacement drives in there immediately. It's a perfectly cromulent use of old hardware.

FYI, HDDs might pull up to 10 W or so under load, and the full system likely uses <100 W under load when full of drives. I wouldn't worry too much about power usage, as it will likely be less than you think. (Got a Kill-A-Watt?)

H110Hawk posted:

Throw away your <1tb disks.

As I've mentioned before, you can certainly find a good use for old, but functioning drives. Even, say, a 250 GB drive can store backed-up files, even a decent amount of family photos/video, and plenty of things like financial/tax documents, etc. Why not re-purpose a couple old drives for backup purposes? Throw one in the safe in the basement, throw one in a safety deposit box, etc. If you didn't plan to use them for anything else and were hanging onto them just in case, this finds a good use for them and costs you nothing.

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




Atomizer posted:


But HGST is owned by WD, so whichever dries you're talking about may just be branded differently.
Correct, we're seeing this on the government side of things especially. HGST branding/business units are being far more responsive to FIPS SED drive inquiries than the old monolith that is WD even though they're the same goddamn NAND/controller. Problem is the military sees the HGST name and gets skittish.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


Crunchy Black posted:

Correct, we're seeing this on the government side of things especially. HGST branding/business units are being far more responsive to FIPS SED drive inquiries than the old monolith that is WD even though they're the same goddamn NAND/controller. Problem is the military sees the HGST name and gets skittish.

LMAO. Before HGST was Hitachi it was IBM's HDD business unit. IBM included the San Jose campus in the sale, so HGST R&D and corporate HQ never moved during the entire time Hitachi operated it as a wholly-owned subsidiary. (I don't know if manufacturing moved around but I'm sure it was already outside the US at the time of sale.) They appear to have finally moved after getting sold to WD... to WD's campus... which is also in San Jose.

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




BobHoward posted:

LMAO. Before HGST was Hitachi it was IBM's HDD business unit. IBM included the San Jose campus in the sale, so HGST R&D and corporate HQ never moved during the entire time Hitachi operated it as a wholly-owned subsidiary. (I don't know if manufacturing moved around but I'm sure it was already outside the US at the time of sale.) They appear to have finally moved after getting sold to WD... to WD's campus... which is also in San Jose.

I mean, yes, I'm fundamentally aware of this, but my company is also a "made in USA" processor board manufacturer so when we tout that and then clients bitch about commodity components, it's, like, erm, you do realize every processor, NIC, and every other IC on this this was surface mounted in the US but didn't originate here, right?

tl;dr: the military is dumb and reactionary. Supermicro story, true or not, has them shook.

Daryl Surat
Apr 6, 2002

I don't care what you say about this post, but if anyone steps on my bunion, I'll kill them!

The one 8 TB EasyStore that I shucked which ended up being a white label instead of an actual Red started clicking and developing bad sectors, so I copied everything off, bit the bullet, and bought an actual 10 TB Red from Amazon since it's not like I could RMA a drive I shucked from an external enclosure over a year ago. But now I'm wondering if I'm unlucky or just stupid, because when I formatted the drive using Windows 10 Disk Management I selected the full format...and it froze up several hours in. After a hard reboot, partition delete, then partition create with a quick format I elected to run chkdsk /R on the blank drive...and the scan froze up several hours in again. The Western Digital tool Data LifeGuard also failed to complete the Full Erase or extended test (again, usually after 50%-60% completion which for drives these large is about 10+ hours), so I figured it must be a bad drive and ordered a replacement. Amazon sends me the replacement...and this one ALSO freezes up several hours into the chkdsk, extended test, and full erase. Am I just really unlucky to be getting multiple bad drives that still have 3 years left on warranty, or is the process I'm undertaking for these brand new drive installs just unnecessary?

bobfather
Sep 20, 2001

I will analyze your nervous system for beer money

Any other system instability? Crashes related to RAM, faulty power supply, etc?

Are you next to a power plant, supercollider, or other facility that would generate intense magnetic fields?

Are you Magneto?

Daryl Surat
Apr 6, 2002

I don't care what you say about this post, but if anyone steps on my bunion, I'll kill them!

bobfather posted:

Any other system instability? Crashes related to RAM, faulty power supply, etc?

Are you next to a power plant, supercollider, or other facility that would generate intense magnetic fields?

Are you Magneto?

No to all of the above. I wasn't sure if maybe the 10TB drive manufacturing process was more prone to error or anything. Just seems like I most likely have to return TWO hard drives (the original and the replacement) and either purchase from another vendor, pony up way more money for a Red Pro, or roll the dice and get a 10TB EasyStore to shuck and hope it doesn't fail. I have had no problems with the 5 other WD Red drives I've got in my system, two of which I'd shucked from EasyStores. Only real difference is that those are 4, 6, or 8 TB capacity.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


How did Amazon package the drives they sent to you? HDDs are quite fragile and sometimes online sellers like Amazon don't do a great job of cushioning them.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

aaaaaaaaaa
AAAAAAAAAAA
HHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!




BobHoward posted:

LMAO. Before HGST was Hitachi it was IBM's HDD business unit. IBM included the San Jose campus in the sale, so HGST R&D and corporate HQ never moved during the entire time Hitachi operated it as a wholly-owned subsidiary. (I don't know if manufacturing moved around but I'm sure it was already outside the US at the time of sale.) They appear to have finally moved after getting sold to WD... to WD's campus... which is also in San Jose.

WD bought Hitachi and Sandisk and is basically divesting themselves of manufacturing now. They gave a factory to Toshiba as part of the sale and are actively closing down their old consumer drive plant in Kuala Lumpur. Hitachi is making most of the drives with the WD label and Sandisk is doing the same for the SSD side. The CEO of Hitachi became the WD CEO and they moved the headquarters from Irvine to the old IBM campus, current Hitachi campus in San Jose. WD is more or less the umbrella company for what is essentially a joint Hitachi/Sandisk venture.

Drives have always been manufactured in Maylasia for both companies.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

Crunchy Black posted:

I mean, yes, I'm fundamentally aware of this, but my company is also a "made in USA" processor board manufacturer so when we tout that and then clients bitch about commodity components, it's, like, erm, you do realize every processor, NIC, and every other IC on this this was surface mounted in the US but didn't originate here, right?

tl;dr: the military is dumb and reactionary. Supermicro story, true or not, has them shook.
The US military is scared of supply chain infiltration because the US itself practices supply chain compromises and any other nation state could do the same to us and has absolutely done so in the past, specifically China but not so much Russia because Soviet manufacturing was never as globalist as Asian manufacturing. Because the US has such a poor manufacturing climate for commodity but high-tech goods like motherboards, ICs, etc. it is basically impossible to "buy American" for a full supply chain from top to bottom (see: Apple's vain efforts to try to manufacture various products in the US). It'll pay so much for this security that it's really hurting the Pentagon to fund a lot of tech projects and is therefore looking outward to companies like Google and Amazon to do what defense contractors used to do for several decades (because those contractors were built primarily to service the government and military officers' retirement plans to the T no matter how nonsensical, not to actually build efficient, world-class tech as a primary mission). This is driving up revenue for the big tech companies and keeping DC beltway bandit pay down substantially.

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




necrobobsledder posted:

The US military is scared of supply chain infiltration because the US itself practices supply chain compromises and any other nation state could do the same to us and has absolutely done so in the past, specifically China but not so much Russia because Soviet manufacturing was never as globalist as Asian manufacturing. Because the US has such a poor manufacturing climate for commodity but high-tech goods like motherboards, ICs, etc. it is basically impossible to "buy American" for a full supply chain from top to bottom (see: Apple's vain efforts to try to manufacture various products in the US). It'll pay so much for this security that it's really hurting the Pentagon to fund a lot of tech projects and is therefore looking outward to companies like Google and Amazon to do what defense contractors used to do for several decades (because those contractors were built primarily to service the government and military officers' retirement plans to the T no matter how nonsensical, not to actually build efficient, world-class tech as a primary mission). This is driving up revenue for the big tech companies and keeping DC beltway bandit pay down substantially.

/this is not an empty quote because I hate working with military prime contractors and is absolutely true. They'll swear up and down they suck the dick of the "warfighter" but, at the end of the day, they're in it for profit.

Profit means commodity/COTS product.

Heners_UK
Jun 1, 2002


Daryl Surat posted:

since it's not like I could RMA a drive I shucked from an external enclosure over a year ago.

I've seen discussions of people putting the drives back into the enclosures and successfully RMAing them.

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.



Fun Shoe

Thread title should change to "Aw, shucks!"

Red_Fred
Oct 21, 2010



Fallen Rib

Heners_UK posted:

That TS430 turned up 6 days early, and now I'm tempted to gather up every hard drive in the house.

I'm actually genuinely wondering if it's worth the electricity to power the <=300gb drives. Heck I'm pondering if the two 500gb drives are worth it. It's not like they are useful just sitting there.

And of course, my cheap side is waiting for those WD Elements 8TB drives to drop below CAD$200... Oh shit waiting means the server isn't doing me any good, per the problem above.

In conclusion: I'll spend the weekend weeping on the floor in a pit of indecision.

I had a similar moment this weekend when I got my DS218+ and ended up putting my old 1 Tb drive in until I get around to buying some proper drives. Should have thrown in an old 500 Gb 2.5” drive too dammit...

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


Heners_UK posted:

I've seen discussions of people putting the drives back into the enclosures and successfully RMAing them.

You are absolutely allowed to do this. It is illegal to force a consumer to use the manufacturer's own repair services and/or void a product's warranty if someone else tries to repair it themselves. You are allowed to disassemble your own property!

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



Not that this necessarily belongs in this thread, but where does the "Warrenty Void If Removed" come from? I always lazily and now-I-realize-dumbly assumed that it was an American thing, since Denmark has pretty good consumer protections.
Actually, thinking about it for a second, maybe they're just hoping to scare consumers, aren't they.

Hed
Mar 31, 2004



Fun Shoe

I drive around with “Keep back 100 ft. Not responsible for damages” on my car.

Heners_UK
Jun 1, 2002


Hed posted:

I drive around with “Keep back 100 ft. Not responsible for damages” on my car.

Always thought fire engines had this to create some space to work in.

G-Prime
Apr 30, 2003

Baby, when it's love,
if it's not rough it isn't fun.


D. Ebdrup posted:

Actually, thinking about it for a second, maybe they're just hoping to scare consumers, aren't they.

This. And in America, that's illegal, due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The FTC's gone after several companies for it in the last few years. In short, not only can the company not void your warranty for attempting to modify/repair your own equipment, but additionally if you send it in for warranty coverage, if they want to say it's because of your modifications the burden of proof is on them. If they can't provide that proof, they're legally required to fulfill their obligation on the warranty. That's one of the reasons why shucking is fine from a warranty perspective. If the drive fails, it's on them to show how you removing it from the shell and controller caused that, and that's basically a non-starter. Plus, at least in the case of WD, the warranty is tied to the serial number, and the serial number on Easystores in particular is the same for both the external shell and the drive inside. They're technically providing a warranty for both parts.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Yeah, there was recently a fairly high profile case where this got clarified that "warranty void if removed" stickers and the like are unenforceable.

Granted, most companies are still not building their shit to be repairable... but having done it now, it's not hard at all to shuck these things without causing any visible damage that couldn't also occur in regular use.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

WD actually sent me back a MyBook for an EasyStore replacement. Like-kind replacements are also under laws as well I think but I think the MyBook is the same thing as the EasyStore sans Best Buy alterations for that supply line.

G-Prime
Apr 30, 2003

Baby, when it's love,
if it's not rough it isn't fun.


MyBook and Easystore are distinctly different products that actually contain different kinds of drives. MyBook (explicitly excepting the Duo models) has WD Blue drives at the lower end and HGST helium drives at the high end. Easystore has Red or white labeled Red. Those details aside, they don't make any guarantee on what kinds of drives are inside (again, except on the Duo models), so I'm pretty sure as long as they give you the same capacity it can be considered like-kind.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

Aware of the product distinction, mostly denoting that as an FYI for other shuckers in the context of the last so many posts that there are still limitations on replacement laws for consumers. I mostly keep the drive around as a spare for hauling stuff between machines and they’re not on 24/7 like my mainline EasyStores. I think I have 9 EasyStores and 1 MyBook as a result.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg


For

Amazon.ca has 8tb WD reds on for $289, which is the cheapest they've been according to Camel.

Limit of 1

Anyone know a way around the quanity restriction? If you change the quantity after its added to the cart you're told you can only buy 1 through the seller.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Use multiple email addresses? It's probably limited by according and not shipping address.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


slidebite posted:

For

Amazon.ca has 8tb WD reds on for $289, which is the cheapest they've been according to Camel.

Limit of 1

Anyone know a way around the quanity restriction? If you change the quantity after its added to the cart you're told you can only buy 1 through the seller.

Friends?

Heners_UK
Jun 1, 2002


NAS adjacent question: How much actual difference does usb flash drive speed make to Unraid? If any.

I only have some random pny drive spare that I found in my Mum's place from god knows when.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Assuming Unraid is like every other USB-booted distro, none aside from on boot / updates.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg


Moey posted:

Use multiple email addresses? It's probably limited by according and not shipping address.

How do you do multiple email addresses on a single Amazon account?


Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


slidebite posted:

How do you do multiple email addresses on a single Amazon account?:

Just make a few new Gmail accounts? Prime shouldn't matter unless it's a "prime only" sale.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg


Moey posted:

Just make a few new Gmail accounts? Prime shouldn't matter unless it's a "prime only" sale.
It was. Too late now anyhow, price back up. Oh well, I'll realistically just end up buying and shucking some drives.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Any Unraid folks know why my parity check and mover schedules are not executing on v6.6.4?

I have Parity check set weekly at Wednesday @ 2AM but it hasn't run in a long, long time automatically, I've just forced the occasional check.

Same with the mover, set for daily at 3AM.

I have the following in my /etc/cron.d/root:

code:
# Generated mover schedule:
0 3 * * * /usr/local/sbin/mover |& logger

# Generated parity check schedule:
0 2 * * 3 /usr/local/sbin/mdcmd check  &> /dev/null || :
Probably something simple. I didn't touch the cron file btw, this is just what it put in there from the web interface.

spincube
Jan 31, 2006

I spent so I could say that I finally figured out what this god damned cube is doing. Get well Lowtax.


Grimey Drawer

Does the version of Plex available in the Synology package centre support hardware acceleration without a Plex Pass? I'm torn between it, and the built-in Video Station software.

[edit] I'm an idiot and didn't check the compatability sheet thing on the Plex support site. Nope, pass needed. Let's give the Synology in-house software a whirl then...

spincube fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Feb 12, 2019

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